Problems after fitting socket convertor.

[amfisted]

Hi All

Sorry, but this goes on a bit. There is a point to it...sort of.

For a good few months now we’ve had up to 10 small appliances plugged into a single socket in our lounge, using an extension lead plugged into another extension lead. Not ideal, I know, but we’re woefully short of sockets in this room, and yes, I do intend to do something about it. However up till now, no problems, no outage, no overheating sockets or plugs.

Today I purchased a socket convertor and changed that single socket to a double. I plugged one extension, which was powering three appliances—a router, a powerline adaptor and an alarm panel—into one side of the new socket, and the other, which was supplying four appliances—TV, sound bar, TV catch up box, and another powerline adaptor –into the other socket.

About two hours after all this stuff was connected, the RCD for that circuit tripped. I took the socket off the wall and checked whether any cables were trapped or not fully connected to terminals—all fine and dandy. Put it all back together and after about five minutes it tripped again.

About 18 inches from this new double socket, horizontally, there's a switch fitted by the previous occupiers of this house, the original purpose of which is unknown to me. To make more room in the new box I disconnected and terminated the cables in the double socket supplying that spur, put the convertor back on the wall and tried again. Once again, after a couple of minutes it tripped (it later occurred to me that I could have left the existing single socket in place and put a new one on the spur, but by that time I’d cut the cables).

I then connected the extension with three appliances plugged in and removed the one with four, and hey presto—no tripping. This indicated to me that the second extension lead was at fault, so I went out and bought a new one, and so far so good.

The above epic prompts me to ask a couple of questions: firstly, why did my extension lead (if it was this lead which is at fault, and right now it seems that way) choose this moment to give up the ghost when it was fine for so long whilst plugged into an ancient single socket? Secondly, are the new socket convertors somehow more sensitive, for want of a better word, than the old fittings?

 

[Iggifer]

Coincidence. And the socket plays very little part (if any) in the tripping of a circuit breaker/rcd. It MAY be that the contacts on the old socket were a bit corroded and had a higher resistance than the old one, but I find it hard to believe this would prevent the device from operating.

Unless of course it was to the point there was no earth continuity all together, but I would call that socket 'faulty' rather than just old

 

[Steve]

Bin the socket converter. Nothing whatsoever wrong with so many low load appliances plugged into one outlet. Or they wouldn't sell such things as this:

The 13 amp fuse in the plugtop stops any overload from occurring.

Just buy a decent multiway socket (like the one above!). You could even fix it to the wall if you wanted to.

The RCD tripping is coincidence. One of your many appliances has a minor fault. There's nothing in a socket that could cause RCD to trip (unless its a cheap chinese product from ebay, then anything's possible!). It could even be an appliance not connected to this setup.

 

[amfisted]

Thanks both.
I paid too much for the socket converter to bin it, but point taken.

 

[Iggifer]

Thanks both.
I paid too much for the socket converter to bin it, but point taken.

£3.80? Ugly as sin, but £3.80 nonetheless

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

So has the RCD tripping now been eradicated by using a new extension?

 

[winston1]

Today I purchased a socket convertor and changed that single socket to a double. I plugged one extension, which was powering three appliances—a router, a powerline adaptor and an alarm panel—into one side of the new socket, and the other, which was supplying four appliances—TV, sound bar, TV catch up box, and another powerline adaptor –into the other socket.

So why have you got 2 powerline adapters side by side? PLTs use mains cabling to carry data from one to the other. If they are side by side you don't need them. One of the short CAT5 cables you have will do.

Apart from the fact that they are bad technology as the mains cabling is not designed to carry data and thus they will cause interference to other nearby users of the RF spectrum.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/publications/whitepaper195

http://www.ban-plt.org.uk

 

[ban-all-sheds]

And radiate your network traffic to anybody with a mind to hack into it.

 

[ericmark]

Most filters will have some earth leakage. This should not exceed 3.5 mA other wise special wiring is required (543.7.1.1) but over time filters do degrade with filter sockets they are built with modules so the components can be changed on a regular basis from memory think around 2 years. So any plug in filter sockets will also have a limited life.

You do not say where the RCD is? I could be in consumer unit, or built into a FCU or built into the socket. The latter I find a problem as often sockets with RCD's built in are only rated 13A for the pair same with sockets with filters built in, where normal twin sockets are rated at least 20A depending on make could be 26A.

My son had his house for some time with two double sockets running everything with extension leads while he was rewiring. When my daughter called me I found one of the extension leads had a fault causing the earth to be disconnected. As a result another bit of faulty equipment did not trip the RCD. However when she swapped plugs the fault became apparent. She blamed the good extension lead where in reality it should have been tripping all the time and it was the faulty lead which stopped it tripping.

I have debated with my son on how many sockets to an RCD. If we assume only half the sockets in use and only half the equipment drawing maximum current to earth with a 30 mA trip which should trip between 15 ~ 30 mA then 30/1.75 = 17 so it is quite acceptable to have 20 sockets on a single RCD. However that is often exceeded and the build up of a little leakage from many items can cause RCD's to trip when there is really no fault.

 

[amfisted]

One powerline adaptor is plugged into an extension lead next to the TV box, and the other is plugged into a second extension lead close to the router (the original reason for fitting the convertor is because according to the instructions, the powerline adaptors should be plugged into wall sockets and not extension leads, because doing the latter could affect their performance. However, the TV service seems OK so far).

The powerline adaptors wouldn't be required if I was able to position the box close to the router, but with the socket situation as it currently is, that can't be done. The wireless network is password protected and whilst I'm not naïve enough to think that its impossible to hack it, the signal is barely strong enough to facilitate trouble free browsing in the lounge, let alone enable any nefarious piggybacking by the folks in the bungalow next door.

The RCD that tripped is in the consumer unit, and at the time of writing this post, the tripping hasn't been repeated since the extension lead was replaced. Bearing in mind what was said about the possibility of faults in the small appliances which are in use, I've also checked the security of all plugs and connections.

My socket convertor cost over seven quid from the local electrical factors, which is a tidy sum to someone living on a public service pension. So I'll hang onto it, thanks very much. ;0)

Edit: thanks, Winston, for the info re PLTs. As it happens, we intend to use the internet function of the TV service but rarely ( I took out the TV service because my monthly calls and internet package, oddly enough, was cheaper with it than without), so I doubt whether we'll cause significant problems to the folks around here.

 

[winston1]

One powerline adaptor is plugged into an extension lead next to the TV box, and the other is plugged into a second extension lead close to the router (the original reason for fitting the convertor is because according to the instructions, the powerline adaptors should be plugged into wall sockets and not extension leads, because doing the latter could affect their performance. However, the TV service seems OK so far).

The powerline adaptors wouldn't be required if I was able to position the box close to the router, but with the socket situation as it currently is, that can't be done.

But both PLTs are connected to adjacent sockets via extension leads. Just run a CAT5 cable from your TV to your router. They are near enough for the leads to go to adjacent sockets so near enough to run a CAT5 lead.

Don't assume they won't cause interference while idling, they still do, though it can be less.

You will also save a few £ a year in electricity costs.

 

[ericmark]

I had not picked up on use of powerline adaptors these should be banned likely they will in the end be banned they are not wireless they use the mains wiring and cause interference on loads of systems.

 

[amfisted]

Thank you.
The distance from TV to router around the edge of the room where any cable would have to go is about six metres. Is it possible to buy an Ethernet cable that long, and which will carry the signal that distance? If so, then that's exactly what I'll do.

 

[winston1]

6 metres no problem for Ethernet. Probably have to make up your own cable (or get one made). You need cable, plugs, and a crimp tool.

 

[Iggifer]

Or amazon