Proposed Kitchen wiring plan

[JimboJet]

Hi again, I've been doing some reading up thanks to these excellent forums etc and hope I've come up with a safe wiring solution for the Kitchen (first floor flat)

Can I ask for suitably qualified eyes to once over the pdf wiring plan to see if there's anything wrong with it please?

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~mackie/KitchenElectricsDesign.pdf


<edit> Sorry, its been saved as portrait by default. R-Click to select rotate. Also I want to mention that atm the CU has a 32A MCB on the cooker radial circuit. The oven I intend to use is a 16Amp siemens beastie and will be hard wired into the Cooker outlet plate, hence I have shown a 16A MCB in the CU.

First question, do I have to use a dedicated Cooker Control Unit (red switch variety) or is the 20Amp switched FCU sufficient?

 

[ColJack]

incorporate the washing machine and hob SFCU's into the ring.. ( put a horizontal link between them instead of the link from socket to socket.. )
why the JB in the 6mm? will it be accessible..

more to the point, why the 6mm anyway?

and you will of course be informing the LABC and paying the fee's before you start the work? Part P and all that?

 

[flameport]

Some odd choices on the diagram.

Ring circuit: make the FCUs part of the ring, and put the extractor hood FCU on the ring as well.
Fit an outlet plate for the extractor - a plug will contain another fuse so something else to go wrong, plus it will be thickly covered with grease and dirt after a few months.

Cooker circuit:
16A breaker with 6mm cable changing to 2.5mm? Either fit a 32A breaker and use 6mm throughout, or keep the 16A and use 2.5mm cable throughout.
Why a junction box on the 6mm cable?
20A switched FCUs don't exist.

Obviously this is all notifiable work etc.

 

[ColJack]

you edited while I was replying..

if it's a 16A oven then there's no spare for the cooker hood...

you could include that in the ring

you might be hard pressed to terminate a 6mm in the back of a 20A DP switch..

 

[LiamPope]

I have one comment. Is this the entire kitchen installation? If so you only have two double socket outlets in the whole room. There is guidance (though not a hard regulation in this country, I don't think) suggesting minimum numbers of sockets for rooms which varies by the type of room and it's size. The spirit is that there should be enough socket outlets for the total number of accessories reasonably expected to be used. I can't remember the suggested numbers off the top of my head, but I'm pretty sure it's more than two doubles for even a small kitchen. Unless this kitchen is a tiny kitchenette, you may want to consider more socket outlets.

I eagerly await answers from the pros on your general layout, as topographically, the cooker and hood supply is exactly how I want to install mine (albeit with a 32A DP switch for my 30A max cooker).

Liam

 

[ColJack]

don't think you can get 32A DP switches.. unless MK have expanded their range since I last did a flat conversion...

it's either a 20A DP, or a 45A DP switch..

 

[JimboJet]

Ah yes, sorry that bit on the right for the washing machine is already wired as you say but I have drawn it incorrectly.

The 6mm is existing wiring again. Sadly the feeds into the CU are not easily accessible. I appreciate it would be better to run a new length of 10mm cable from the CU to provide more options in the future. It needs to be moved from its present position as the new gas hob would otherwise be directly underneath the CCU and sadly there isn't enough 6mm cable to do it in one run.

 

[LiamPope]

don't think you can get 32A DP switches.. unless MK have expanded their range since I last did a flat conversion...

it's either a 20A DP, or a 45A DP switch..

My situation is this: I quite like the look of the MK range (in particular that their cooker switches are not bright red!) and would like to use it throughout my full rewire. However I dont need or particularly want a socket on the cooker switch. For some reason unknown to man the MK range of 45A DP switches without sockets are all silly oblong or giant square shapes. They do a conventional size square one but it is only rated 32A (so yes, MK do do a 32A DP switch). Other manufacturers seem to be happy to produce a small square sized 45A DP switch, but as stated I would prefer to keep with the MK stuff! Hence can I use a 32A DP switch as my cooker switch?

Cheers!

 

[JimboJet]

why the JB in the 6mm? will it be accessible..

Yes, it will be a 45 amp JB about 300mm vertically up from the floor, behind a 1000mm wide pan drawer unit.

and you will of course be informing the LABC and paying the fee's before you start the work? Part P and all that?

Well not exactly, I'm trying to sort this out now so that I can properly decide on unit layout etc, so I can do most of the donkey work (adding the new chases where possible, confirm placement of pipes etc for the plumber, laying the new runs of cables, ordering and getting the sockets etc (although not connecting them) so that with all that done, I can just get a registered spark in to connect the dots.

As an aside, I am also doing up a bathroom which is behind the kitchen and as it will be a wetroom eventually, running cables and such will be very hard indeed as access will be even more limited to the kitchen. By posting a sensible plan/schematic on here first it gives me a better idea of what is and what wouldn't be required before I move on.

Forewarned is forearmed!

 

[swidders]

You need to get a local spark who will be happy for you to lay the cables. He can't sign it off if he is not involved in the design and install stage.

 

[JimboJet]

I have one comment. Is this the entire kitchen installation? If so you only have two double socket outlets in the whole room.
Liam

Actually no, good of you to spot my omission... there are a few more sockets (1 dble and 1 single atm) on the Ring but I've left them out for clarity. Now you mention it, there will be a bit of tweaking there too, but that is straightforward - adding a cple more sockets and some 13 amp FCUs (and associated non-switched outlets) to the ring for the Dishwasher, Fridge and Freezer.

 

[ColJack]

ok, lets stop you right there.. that's a lot of heavy appliances on one ring along with the kettle, toaster, steamer, microwave etc...

it's a good idea to have the big appliances on one or more seperate circuits..

 

[JimboJet]

Swidders - I wasn't intending to render/plaster over them, just to lay them out in preparation. Although, now you mention it, it would be more prudent just to do the chasing out and sinking the boxes and leave the cables to the spark, I hate doing the same job twice! Ta for the advice.

 

[swidders]

Swidders - I wasn't intending to render/plaster over them, just to lay them out in preparation. Although, now you mention it, it would be more prudent just to do the chasing out and sinking the boxes and leave the cables to the spark, I hate doing the same job twice! Ta for the advice.

It's a pest, I know, but sparks have to do that highly skilled job of laying the cables unless they agree with you beforehand to "supervise" you.

Mostly to check that they've gone through joists properly and been clipped in place 50mm above insulation, and traversing through acceptable routes etc. It may be worth you getting a spark round anyway to confirm that your chases and intended wiring runs will be acceptable in readiness for their first fix.

 

[JimboJet]

ColJack - Right, I've been thinking about that a bit too. I fear this could be the start of a partial rewire! bugger!


At the CU there are two rings serving the entire flat, about 7 additional outlets on top of the kitchens.

The kitchen is a 6 /7 m long galley affair and the cables all come in at around about the midpoint of what I thought /assumed was one ring.

I haven't actually checked whether the existing kitchen sockets are on the same ring or not. Going to trip one of the socket MCBs now and find out... Praying that they are indeed two rings sharing the kitchen load. I suppose I could just follow the "bottom" cable in the ring to see if it links back to the opposite outlet too.