these appear to be the king of youtube EV installers. Not cheap though
Provision for Electric vehicle (plus Induction oven)
- Thread starter Mr.B
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That Artisan video was really useful ... ta for that.
I am considering getting an EV at some, not too distant, point ... hence the pondering.
It answers several points and raises a few more. For example the size of the main fuse and tails. Mine in unmarked. Could be 60a, could be 100a, I don't know. It was fitted in 1996, that's all I know.
The tails measure 12mm across. Hopefully that's enough to identify the size.
I haven't said I wanted to consider a switched fusebox INSIDE the meter cabinet ... I mentioned that my neighbour had theirs immediately below the cabinet - but I was then told (above) that that was not permitted and not desirable.
I can't do as was suggested and bring the supply in to the house, fit a switch and go back out again - it's not feasible.
Maybe I would need to re consider the internal route and accept the redecoration.
All the above is being absorbed. Ta.
EDIT. I don't know what the error is. But, up to now, there have been points raised here which contradict each other so how I, as an ill-informed layman, am supposed to know what's right and what's wrong is anyone's guess.
I am considering getting an EV at some, not too distant, point ... hence the pondering.
It answers several points and raises a few more. For example the size of the main fuse and tails. Mine in unmarked. Could be 60a, could be 100a, I don't know. It was fitted in 1996, that's all I know.
The tails measure 12mm across. Hopefully that's enough to identify the size.
I haven't said I wanted to consider a switched fusebox INSIDE the meter cabinet ... I mentioned that my neighbour had theirs immediately below the cabinet - but I was then told (above) that that was not permitted and not desirable.
I can't do as was suggested and bring the supply in to the house, fit a switch and go back out again - it's not feasible.
Maybe I would need to re consider the internal route and accept the redecoration.
All the above is being absorbed. Ta.
EDIT. I don't know what the error is. But, up to now, there have been points raised here which contradict each other so how I, as an ill-informed layman, am supposed to know what's right and what's wrong is anyone's guess.
I'm not going to painfully watch/skip through it again, to guess errors
What contradictions are there ?
You have a modern house, so your supply should be adquate.
Chargers only take 30A.
Do you have an electric shower ?
Note I think the grant ends soon????
Chargers seam to be in short supply.
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I'm not going to painfully watch/skip through it again, to guess errors
What contradictions are there ?
You have a modern house, so your supply should be adquate.
Chargers only take 30A.
Do you have an electric shower ?
Note I think the grant ends soon????
Chargers seam to be in short supply.
---------------
No I don't have elec. shower, nor will I in the foreseeable.
Didn't know about the grant ending (but we shouldn't be surprised, should we?
)And I suppose not surprised about short supply of chargers ... it joins the long list of other stuff that's in short supply - they'll probably say they can't get the chips.
True, but the key difference is that a car charger can take 30A for 10+ hours continuously which is unlike any other domestic load.
That's why they must all be notified to the DNO, and in some cases approval obtained before installing one.
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You can get 2.3 kW to 350 kW they are given names but really it does not matter what name it is given, what is important is that it not potentially dangerous and it will not cause the main supply fuse to rupture.
There is no reason why the car can't be designed like a lawn mower so there is no chance of earth type related shocks, we do it with narrow boats with isolation transformers, and it seems some of the charge leads do exactly that. But it is hard to find information as to what manufacturer or system does what.
Likely an isolation transformer will start at around £150 although continuous rated more like £200 but in the grand scheme of things when the car cost £10k upwards the cost of the charge system is rather minor, what is more worrying is how many cars and vans are charged using systems which are not really safe.
Before I moved there was a milkman living the other side of the street who had decided electric was the way to go, he got a renault kangoo electric van long wheel base, with a claimed range of 100 miles, he had a fixed round of 64 miles, so it seemed the way to go, and he did find some advantages, he did not wake his clients and more to the point thieves who would steal the milk after delivery, so lack of noise was a real plus, but the 100 miles range was not really the true range, and he had to be recovered more than once due to flat batteries, even without any heaters on, the round was not problem. it was returning from the round, and police insisting he did not crawl home but got recovered. Very close to home was a duel carriageway and a hill, which was his down fall.
The charger seemed to have no special RCD or auto disconnect, was installed around 2012 very soon after its inception in 2011, at that time the courses on how to install charger units had not really started, he says it has saved him money, but he had to retain the old pick-up for when the van failed. About as reliable as the local trains, but the engine for them was made in around 1903, so one would expect modern vehicles to be more reliable.
In all my time as an electrician and I have 70 turns to coil, personally only had loss of PEN once, not counting plug and socket systems, so the loss of PEN is not very common.
We have seen Part P and English landlord regulations both which went OTT, the Part P in England has been watered down, but in Wales still as it was. The landlord law has really been a problem, with no body really sure where the line should be drawn, this is likely with EV charging, plus the problems with on street charging with trip hazards and restricted wheel chair and mobility scooter access.
In view of this I would wait until you have an EV car, as likely the rules will change.
There is no reason why the car can't be designed like a lawn mower so there is no chance of earth type related shocks, we do it with narrow boats with isolation transformers, and it seems some of the charge leads do exactly that. But it is hard to find information as to what manufacturer or system does what.
Likely an isolation transformer will start at around £150 although continuous rated more like £200 but in the grand scheme of things when the car cost £10k upwards the cost of the charge system is rather minor, what is more worrying is how many cars and vans are charged using systems which are not really safe.
Before I moved there was a milkman living the other side of the street who had decided electric was the way to go, he got a renault kangoo electric van long wheel base, with a claimed range of 100 miles, he had a fixed round of 64 miles, so it seemed the way to go, and he did find some advantages, he did not wake his clients and more to the point thieves who would steal the milk after delivery, so lack of noise was a real plus, but the 100 miles range was not really the true range, and he had to be recovered more than once due to flat batteries, even without any heaters on, the round was not problem. it was returning from the round, and police insisting he did not crawl home but got recovered. Very close to home was a duel carriageway and a hill, which was his down fall.
The charger seemed to have no special RCD or auto disconnect, was installed around 2012 very soon after its inception in 2011, at that time the courses on how to install charger units had not really started, he says it has saved him money, but he had to retain the old pick-up for when the van failed. About as reliable as the local trains, but the engine for them was made in around 1903, so one would expect modern vehicles to be more reliable.
In all my time as an electrician and I have 70 turns to coil, personally only had loss of PEN once, not counting plug and socket systems, so the loss of PEN is not very common.
so at moment around 40 people per year, which is clearly low. However this will likely increase as the take up of electric vehicles increases. The big question is what happens when the postman touches your car and dies? Who will take the blame. And maybe more to the point, once this happens what will be the knee jerk reaction of parliament.
We have seen Part P and English landlord regulations both which went OTT, the Part P in England has been watered down, but in Wales still as it was. The landlord law has really been a problem, with no body really sure where the line should be drawn, this is likely with EV charging, plus the problems with on street charging with trip hazards and restricted wheel chair and mobility scooter access.
In view of this I would wait until you have an EV car, as likely the rules will change.
Incidents isn't the number of people.
The figure is the number of reported occurrences of a broken PEN fault, each of which could have affected anything from a single property to a whole housing estate.
How many other occurrences went unreported isn't known and never will be.
I fear we haved moved away from the nub of my question and I confess that eric has lost me. For example, eric, I haven't a clue what you mean when you say ...... "In all my time as an electrician and I have 70 turns to coil, personally only had loss of PEN once, not counting plug and socket systems, so the loss of PEN is not very common". and don't know what this has to do my question. And the dialogue about milk floats has gone over my head too.
Firstly - on the whole I've been given the impression that my 6mm T&E 32amp supply from my consumer unit will supply both my double oven and a domestic 600mm hob that I may care to fit at a later date (using the "diversity" principle). But even having been advised thus I can readily see that not every sparks agrees on that and I've seen, this afternoon, no shortage of published opinions that firmly state I MUST run a separate 6mm supply to the hob from the CU. And these views are from contributors who describe themselves as electricians.... and I've no reasson to think they aren't. So someone is right and someone is wrong. (a bit like gas fitters arguing over the need to fit a 28mm gas pipe from the meter to a combi boiler with some saying a 22mm will do and others disagreeing - and I guess the variation in factors dictating the need to run this or that size of pipe can be interpreted in various ways).
Secondly - it's clear that the supply to an EV charging point on my driveway is subject to as much debate as the question of 28mm gas pipes (I jest) with different contributors advising me with information that isn't in agreement with some of the others. As an example davelx has suggested that the video by Artisan Electricians containd errors and implied that he has offered incorrect advice (although no-one has advised what they are).
I thought rules was rules and I thought that there would be black and white regulations that I would need to adhere to when asking about running the cable myself but it looks like it's open to conjecture and different opinions.
I'll abandon the affair and, in the near future, contact a couple of qualified electricians and will be interested to see if they agree with each other when telling me what they propose.
Thanks again, it's been interesting and I appreciate the contributions.
Firstly - on the whole I've been given the impression that my 6mm T&E 32amp supply from my consumer unit will supply both my double oven and a domestic 600mm hob that I may care to fit at a later date (using the "diversity" principle). But even having been advised thus I can readily see that not every sparks agrees on that and I've seen, this afternoon, no shortage of published opinions that firmly state I MUST run a separate 6mm supply to the hob from the CU. And these views are from contributors who describe themselves as electricians.... and I've no reasson to think they aren't. So someone is right and someone is wrong. (a bit like gas fitters arguing over the need to fit a 28mm gas pipe from the meter to a combi boiler with some saying a 22mm will do and others disagreeing - and I guess the variation in factors dictating the need to run this or that size of pipe can be interpreted in various ways).
Secondly - it's clear that the supply to an EV charging point on my driveway is subject to as much debate as the question of 28mm gas pipes (I jest) with different contributors advising me with information that isn't in agreement with some of the others. As an example davelx has suggested that the video by Artisan Electricians containd errors and implied that he has offered incorrect advice (although no-one has advised what they are).
I thought rules was rules and I thought that there would be black and white regulations that I would need to adhere to when asking about running the cable myself but it looks like it's open to conjecture and different opinions.
I'll abandon the affair and, in the near future, contact a couple of qualified electricians and will be interested to see if they agree with each other when telling me what they propose.
Thanks again, it's been interesting and I appreciate the contributions.
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OK, let me clear that one up. It's something that has been mentioned many times on this forum. The printed plate on the side of the cutout fuse carrier ( as opposed to the additional label stuck on the front in the video) does not indicate the rating of the fuse fitted, only the maximum rating for the fuseholder.
In the absence of any additional information (such as the stuck on label) the only way to know for certain what rating of fuse is fitted is to remove it and have a look - not something the homeowner should be doing! A site visit by the electrician prior to quoting is the correct way for the electrician to obtain all the info needed to produce an accurate quote. It's part of the cost of doing business.
(Yes, I know that an electrician should not be opening the cutout, but as we all know.........)
If the electrician is not willing to do that, the customer will have to get the DNO out to confirm the fuse rating - in fact the best bet would probably be to get them out to confirm/uprate the fuse regardless, as they won't know what is fitted without opening the cutout themselves.
Right you are then - I (we) now know what the glaring error on the video was. Not exactly heinous but does explain why I couldn't find the value on the side of the fuse housing.
I may well ring South Western Power in the week and ask then if they'll send someone to check.
But before I do that I would ask if it's thought that to do so is putting my head in the lion's mouth and risking a Spanish Inquisition. Are they likely to come equipped with a lorry load of testing apparatus and strict instructions to nit pick the installation and discover that this or that needs updating in order to comply with the latest ruling?
To the best of my knowledge everything here is (or was when I moved in 15 years ago) in good order but I realise there might be upgrades which need to be done and don't want to volunteer to give myself a load of bureaucratic grief with the authorities.
I may well ring South Western Power in the week and ask then if they'll send someone to check.
But before I do that I would ask if it's thought that to do so is putting my head in the lion's mouth and risking a Spanish Inquisition. Are they likely to come equipped with a lorry load of testing apparatus and strict instructions to nit pick the installation and discover that this or that needs updating in order to comply with the latest ruling?
To the best of my knowledge everything here is (or was when I moved in 15 years ago) in good order but I realise there might be upgrades which need to be done and don't want to volunteer to give myself a load of bureaucratic grief with the authorities.
1. Post a pic of your consumer unit, so we can give you grief before an electrician does. Southern west won’t give you any grief though. Only an electrican. I guess it will be that some circuits are not rcd protected and the case is plastic, will be typical concerns. The bonding cables to mains pipes many need to be thicker these days?
2. Yes cooker installation opinions vary. I suspect both are correct. Now you tell us the hob is 3m away from the oven, a new supply maybe more sensible. however running it from the garage sounds a bigger bodge.
3. Regarding what Eric said. Cars typically decide the maximum charge rate. If you get a small car that would be a 3kw charge rate. A normal sized car would charge at 7Kw.
Think of the charger on the wall as just a power socket with lots of safety devices built in. And which handshakes with the car.
Yes they can reduce the charge rate too, if e.g. you are running the electric shower or be a timer to charge at night
Southern west won’t give you any grief though. Only an electrican. I guess it will be that some circuits are not rcd protected and the case is plastic, will be typical concerns. The bonding cables to mains pipes many need to be thicker these days?2. Yes cooker installation opinions vary. I suspect both are correct. Now you tell us the hob is 3m away from the oven, a new supply maybe more sensible. however running it from the garage sounds a bigger bodge.
3. Regarding what Eric said. Cars typically decide the maximum charge rate. If you get a small car that would be a 3kw charge rate. A normal sized car would charge at 7Kw.
Think of the charger on the wall as just a power socket with lots of safety devices built in. And which handshakes with the car.
Yes they can reduce the charge rate too, if e.g. you are running the electric shower or be a timer to charge at night
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It will supply appliances totalling 15kW or 19kW depending on whether the cooker switch has an integral socket.
There is no argument.
If you mean separate from the oven, then that is just wrong.
Such is life.
EV is new. Even the people making the rules keep changing their mind.
Theoretically possible to add a non-RCD circuit to that, which could be used for an EV point provided the circuit was done in armoured cable throughout and the EV point contained all of the required protection devices.
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