As I said, that appears to make total sense. If someone notifying work was already 'carrying it out' (rather than intending, or proposing, to carry it out), they would already have broken the law!
Kind Regards, John
Question for electricians
- Thread starter DaftPunk
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Kind Regards, John
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I don't dispute that but does it not, therefore, imply that it is, indeed, the householder who should do the notifying rather than an electrician?
No one would expect a building company, let alone a bricklayer, to notify work intending to be done.
Next you'll be telling us that Thomas Telford didn't actually dig all those canals himself, nor build all those bridges.
In an attempt to resolve this uncertainty, as least as far as one locale is concerned, I've sent a somewhat anonymised e-mail to my LABC (AVDC) enquiring as to who is legally responsible for the notification. If I get a response, I'll report back!
Kind Regards, John
Kind Regards, John
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Don't be ridiculous - you know it doesn't work like that and I can't begin to imagine what you hope to gain by asking that. If you want an explanation of what a regulation means when it says <something> then you have to show where it says it, not ask people to show where it doesn't say it.
Of course it does.
Have you actually tried substituting "householder" for "person carrying out the work" (and its variants)?
Do the regulations then make more sense, or less?
It seems that you are desperate for the regulations to not mean what they actually say.
WHY?
You said the equivalent regulation for extension building did not state intending.
I asked if you would supply a link to it.
So it does state intends.
"12.—
(1) This regulation applies to a person who intends to—
(a) carry out building work;"
Are you saying intends doesn't count?
It is not "person carrying out the work"; it is "A person intending to carry out building work ..."
“(6A) A householder intending to carry out building work in relation to which Part P of Schedule 1 imposes a requirement is required to give a building notice or deposit full plans where the work consists of—"
That seems alright.
I would like to know with whom the responsibility truly lies.
We will have to wait until John receives a reply - if they know.
No I did not.
I pointed out that the page YOU said contained "A person intending to build an extension" does not contain "A person intending to build an extension".
Which it clearly does not.
Let me get this straight - you want me to supply links to other pages which also do not contain "A person intending to build an extension"?
The point of that would be?
No, I'm saying that the page you said contained "A person intending to build an extension" does not contain "A person intending to build an extension".
But what if it isn't him who intends to carry out the work? What if it's an electrician he employs?
Also:
Why do you think it doesn't truly lie with whom the Building Regulations quite clearly say it does?
Why does the Government's guide to the Building Regulations explicitly draw a distinction between a homeowner personally carrying out the work and a builder he employs to carry out the work?
The primary responsibility for achieving compliance with the
regulations rests with the person carrying out the building work.
So if you are carrying out the work personally the responsibility
will be yours. If you are employing a builder the responsibility
will usually be that firm’s
To put this all into context, I strongly suspect that, if work is notified, an LABC does not care a jot as to who did the notifying (householder, electrician or whoever). It is only in the case of non-notification that the question is likely to arise as to who was legally responsible for the notification that didn't happen - so that LABC know who to 'pursue' (or even prosecute).
If the electrical work is part of a larger project requiring notification, that presumably is one case in which 'the person carrying out' the (electrical) work would not normally be expected to do the notifying?
Kind Regards, John
If the electrical work is part of a larger project requiring notification, that presumably is one case in which 'the person carrying out' the (electrical) work would not normally be expected to do the notifying?
Kind Regards, John
My belief is that of course the notification can be done by somebody else - I guess it's an implicit delegation of the requirement for the plumber to notify the WC, the glazier to notify the windows, the electrician to notify the wiring and so on.
Just as with my car analogy it's fine for someone other than the driver to arrange and pay for insurance - that's what happens with company cars, but the responsibility to be insured still remains with the driver. If there were realistic prospects of the tradesmen involved in a larger project being prosecuted for any non-notification then they'd be well advised to check that the somebody else, be that the homeowner, the architect/architectural technician, the project manager, the builder, had actually done it.
Plus it would be madness (if self-certification didn't apply) to load the cost of the project with several discrete notification fees.
Just as with my car analogy it's fine for someone other than the driver to arrange and pay for insurance - that's what happens with company cars, but the responsibility to be insured still remains with the driver. If there were realistic prospects of the tradesmen involved in a larger project being prosecuted for any non-notification then they'd be well advised to check that the somebody else, be that the homeowner, the architect/architectural technician, the project manager, the builder, had actually done it.
Plus it would be madness (if self-certification didn't apply) to load the cost of the project with several discrete notification fees.
I thought I had 'reported back', but seem to have forgot. In response to my question, I got a 'very interesting' response back very quickly...
...and the reply I received was:in my letter to my LABC said:
Does that perhaps count as "a cat amongst the pigeons", at least in my locality?BC at AVDC said:
Kind Regards, John
Why does anybody think that BCOs are any more capable of reading and thinking at the same time than most other people?
From AD P
Responsibility for compliance
People who are responsible for building work (for example, the agent, designer, builder or installer)
must ensure that the work complies with all applicable requirements of the Building Regulations.
And one of the applicable requirements is notification.
From AD P
Responsibility for compliance
People who are responsible for building work (for example, the agent, designer, builder or installer)
must ensure that the work complies with all applicable requirements of the Building Regulations.
And one of the applicable requirements is notification.
Did you also ask them if it would be OK for you to DIY without notifying, and then get a registered electrician to tell them after the event that he did it, as long as the he was happy that he'd given you enough direction and supervision?
I, for one, don't think that. However, given that if anyone attempts to initiate any 'enforcement', it's presumably going to be the local BCO, it's obviously of interest to me to know how my local one interprets the law. It would be interesting to hear what other BCOs have to say, if anyone is inclined to repeat the exercise I've just undertaken.
Indeed - but (a) as you would usually be only too quick to remind us, ADP is not the law, and (b) if you had gone on to quote the next sentence of ADP, it reads
... which seems to rather muddy the waters, even if it's not 'the law'!!
Kind Regards, John
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