Quick question - Reg number prohibiting SP RCBOs on TT

Whether it is the most reasonable terminology, or whether it made any sense to tamper with seemingly long-established terminology, is a different matter.
I agree, and I'm not sure what problem(s) it was designed to address. It may be that they were wrong to introduce the term, but that doesn't make the term itself wrong.
I, for one, have certainly never suggested it was wrong. Indeed, I started off fully supporting it, and still have a fair bit of sympathy.

However, I've just realised that most/all of us have been making some doubtful assumptions. It may well be, as some are arguing, that what the BGB now says is inconsistent with 'well-established terminology'. However, I see no evidence, at least not from BS7671, that the IET (or JPEL/64) have changed anything, or changed their views about anything. BS7671:2008 was essentially silent on this issue. 312.1.1 merely referred to 312.2.1,which said:
The number and type of live conducors (e.g. single-phase two-wire a.c., three-phase four-wire a.c.)
In other words, they just gave two examples of supply types, and said nothing about the others. However, in the 2011 amendment, 312.1.1 is much expanded, consisting of diagrams of eight different supply arrangements, namely:
  • Single-phase 2-wire
    Single-phase 3-wire **
    Two-phase 3-wire (180)
    Two-phase 3-wire (90)
    Two-phase 3-wire (120)
    Three-phase 3-wire (star)
    Three-phase 3-wire (delta)
    Three-phase 4-wire
Hence, the IET may well have had exactly the same view of this terminology in 2008 (and perhaps much earlier) as is now explicitly expressed in the 2011 Amendment of BS7671, but were eseentiallybeing silent about their views on all but the two examples of the terminolgy which they quoted - i.e. we actually have no idea what they would have called "2-phase 3-wire" had they explicitly mentioned it in BS7671:2008.

And what if you supplied the premises with just the two phases and no neutral? Would it still be a 2-phase supply?
Of course not - and, thankfully, the one thing that no-one, and no cited document, has ever suggested in this discussion is that there could possibly be such a thing as a "2-phase 2-wire supply"!

** The "Single-phase 3-wire supply is one which might interest you, and which you might wish to comment upon:

Kind Regards, John.
 
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It doesn't necessarily mean right either. Besides, whichever you think is right, it can't be both one phase and two. If the committee coming up with this nonsense is sure that it's right now by calling it 2 phases, then it must be saying that it's been wrong all these years by calling it 1 phase before.
Are you forgetting the "3-wire" part of the definition?


And before this apparent sudden change, what did you call it? Single phase or two phase?
I called it split phase.

But I have no problem with there being two different names for the same thing.


Just because you see it moving toward you then away from you from your vantage point halfway up the hill doesn't change that.
I wonder if the problem is that the words have never been big enough.

I'll try making them even bigger this time, then perhaps you will see them.

It has changed direction

t3281872.jpg



And that does not make the currents out of phase. At ANY point on a conductor the current at any moment must be flowing towards that point from one side and away from it on the other.
And therefore if you expose that point and make it available, and use it as the reference point from which you start to measure and refer to all the other points you expose currents going in opposite directions relative to that point.


But if you see that car coming towards you from the north, passing you, then going away from you to the south, it is travelling north to south.
Not from my perspective. It is travelling towards me and then it is travelling away from me.


It's travelling north to south when it's approaching you and it's travelling north to south when it's going away from you. It hasn't changed direction, it's been going in one direction the whole time.
OK - imagine I was standing exactly on the North Pole, and across a flat expanse of ice comes the car, travelling in what any external observer would say is a straight line, it passes me, and continues in, to the external observer, a perfectly straight line.

I would say it has changed direction, from towards me to away from me.

And you too are now going to have to say it has changed direction, from travelling north to travelling south.

How can that be, I wonder?


Have there been two changes of direction of the vehicle then, from towards/towards, to towards/away, to away/away?
There has been one change of direction per observer.

Back at the North Pole, we now have three observers, and two changes of direction observed between them.

Myself, who said "It changed direction from travelling towards me to travelling away from me".

You, who said "It changed direction from travelling north to travelling south."

And the 3rd observer who said "It never changed direction - it was always travelling the same way".

How can that be, I wonder?


There's nothing special about your point of observation, nor about the point of observation of the other person some distance away.
Is there not?

Let's say you were sat next to Observer #3.

I'd still be saying it changed direction.

You and he would be in the same place, but one of you would be saying it had changed direction and the other would be saying it had not.

How can that be, I wonder?

3 observers, 2 locations, three different answers but two of them the same in one aspect and different in others.

Are all 3 people wrong?

Are all 3 people right?


The vehicle has been travelling in the same direction the whole time.
People watching a motorcycle on the wall of death see it going round and round.

The person riding it does not.

How can that be, I wonder?


To transpose your analogy to a railway, if you were standing on the platform at Rugby as the London-to-Liverpool express went through, then obviously the train would be approaching you from London direction, pass you at Rugby, then head away from you toward Liverpool.

But where did the train change direction? Before it got to Rugby it was travelling from London to Liverpool. After it passed you at Rugby it was still travelling from London to Liverpool. It didn't suddenly turn around and start going back towards London, did it? So it's still going in the same direction.
OK, so London to Liverpool is the direction, and as long as it's doing that before and after it passes me it's going in the same direction?

What if it was travelling from London Euston to London Kings Cross via Rugby?

According to you that is a journey in which it's always going in the same direction, but would you see no merit whatsoever in the viewpoint of someone at Rugby who said "When it got here it turned round and started travelling in the opposite direction?"


This next one is not rhetorical, I'd love an answer:

If you were standing on a large Mobius strip, watching something travel along the edge, then from what you've written in all your previous posts you would not say that it changed direction as it went past you. Let's say it came from behind you and passed you on your right. A short while later you see it coming towards you on your left.

Would you say that it had changed direction?

If the Mobius strip was too large for you to see that it was one, and you didn't know that it was one, would your answer be the same?



I've never disputed that the voltages at opposite ends of the winding are out of phase relative to the centre tap.
Since there is a linear relationship between current and voltage, of the voltages are out of phase relative to the centre tap then so must the currents be.


That by itself does not make it 2 phases.
So we have two voltages present, which are not in phase, but we don't have two phases?

Seems to me that the inconsistencies you object to are the ones that you create in your struggle to deny the validity of the term "2-phase 3-wire".



But it's a drawing which illustrates that at any of the points I've marked the current will be flowing towards that point and away from it at any given instant (as it must, since it has nowhere else to go). And that seems to be the crux of your argument about 2 phases. But you're agreeing that what I drew there isn't 2 phases.
Because, absolutely crucially, you haven't drawn it as a 3-wire one, therefore there is no way to access it as a 2-phase 3-wire supply, and therefore there is no way to observe it as a 2-phase 3-wire supply.


You can't have it both ways: Does the current flowing both towards and away from any given point at the same instant in time make it 2 phases or doesn't it?
If that point is the third, and reference, point provided to you in a 2-phase 3-wire system, yes.


If you took the situation of a normal 3-phase supply, and had only two points of reference in it, being the ends of two of the phases, what you would see would be a simple 50Hz AC supply with an RMS voltage of 398v.

Putting aside what you know about our normal 3-phase supply, there would be absolutely no way you could know, or tell, or detect, or determine anything beyond "I have a 398V supply".

If you connected a load between those two points you'd see a single alternating current which at any time was only going in one direction.
I agree with all of that.
But what have you got?

Have you got a 2-phase supply, a 3-phase supply or a single-phase supply?




You have an extra wire connecting the xfmr c.t. to the mid point of R1 & R2. The instantaneous direction of I1 doesn't change. The instantaneous direction of I2 doesn't change. The direction of I1 compared to that of I2 at any given instant doesn't change.
If you were circling the earth at the equator, would your direction change as you crossed the Greenwich meridian?

Or, as you've shown such an interest in using north and south before, what if you were travelling along the great circle which connects North and South Poles. Would you change direction at any point?


If R1=R2 so that no current flows in the third wire, not even the magnitude of I1, I2 or I1 relative to I2 change. If no currents have changed their direction or relationship to each other in any way, how can you have introduced a second phase of current?
If your circumpolar vehicle was a train, would you at any time have the train travelling north and south simultaneously?


But it does. If you're saying it's OK to call it 2 phase because you can see two voltages out of phase with each other relative to some other point, then you need to apply that consistently. Go to point B in the diagram above and use it as your reference. What will be the phase relationship of the voltages you see at points A & C, relative to B?
Point B is not the common point of a 2-phase 3-wire supply.

Neither is A, C or D.


And what about a 3 phase system where you have only three supply lines, such as a delta configuration? How are you going to select a common reference point and see three voltages relative to that point which are all out of phase with each other? You'll only be able to see two. So do you want to call that a 2 phase system now as well? If not, why not?
Interesting.

I think I'm right in saying that you'd call it 3-phase even though you can only see 2 voltages.

But when you won't entertain the notion of 2-phase when you think you can only see 1 voltage.

Inconsistencies?
 
Hence, the IET may well have had exactly the same view of this terminology in 2008 (and perhaps much earlier) as is now explicitly expressed in the 2011 Amendment of BS7671, but were eseentiallybeing silent about their views on all but the two examples of the terminolgy which they quoted - i.e. we actually have no idea what they would have called "2-phase 3-wire" had they explicitly mentioned it in BS7671:2008.
A very good point.

What if it had always been called 2-phase 3-wire, and there wasn't the 100+ years of it being called something else?

It's nature would not have changed, it would still behave, and have for 100+ years always behaved, in exactly the same way.

Everything which Tech99 has said in opposition to it being called 2-phase 3-wire now could have been said for 100+ years. I wonder if he would be saying it today.


And what if you supplied the premises with just the two phases and no neutral? Would it still be a 2-phase supply?
Of course not
Indeed.

But if up to the cutout it was a 3-phase 4-wire supply then what has changed is what you call it when you are not presented with all of the wires.

So it's OK to change the name of the supply type when presented with a subset of its wires. It's inevitable therefore that the name must change when a different subset is presented.

Who's to say that a single phase 2-wire supply cannot be a subset of a 2-phase 3-wire one?


** The "Single-phase 3-wire supply is one which might interest you, and which you might wish to comment upon:
Not ducking this - don't have time right now.
 
A very good point.
Exactly. The whole of this protracted discussion may have been based on the false assumption that the IET have changed their views about terminology, whereas what appeared in the 2011 Amendment of BS7671 may simply be a clarification of what their view has always been.

What if it had always been called 2-phase 3-wire, and there wasn't the 100+ years of it being called something else? It's nature would not have changed, it would still behave, and have for 100+ years always behaved, in exactly the same way. Everything which Tech99 has said in opposition to it being called 2-phase 3-wire now could have been said for 100+ years. I wonder if he would be saying it today.
As you imply, probably not - primarily because the question would probably never have arisen. If he, you or I went around looking for 'illogical long-established terminology' to criticise, I'm sure that we'd find some, but we generally don't do that unless - we just wait for 'issues to arise'. If one wanted to get analystical, I'm sure one could question the logic of "split phase" - what 'phase' has been 'split', and what does that mean?


And what if you supplied the premises with just the two phases and no neutral? Would it still be a 2-phase supply?
Of course not
Indeed.

So it's OK to change the name of the supply type when presented with a subset of its wires. It's inevitable therefore that the name must change when a different subset is presented.
Indeed - and that is,of course, the situation with the vast majority of UK domestic installations.

Who's to say that a single phase 2-wire supply cannot be a subset of a 2-phase 3-wire one?
In a literal sense, it obviously is such a 'subset'. However, one has to remember that safety consderations will generally dictate that the 'neutral' is connected to earth somewhere, which effectively dictates that one wire of any such subset must be the neutral (i.e. a 2-wire 400V single-phase supply derived from 2 phases of a 4-wire 230V 3-phase supply would not usually be acceptable).

Not ducking this - don't have time right now.
No problem. I certainly had to think about it for a while- and, indeed, am still thinking. As my mind stands, I think I would simply regard it as two separate single-phase supplies - after all, those two windings could be in different, maybe geographically separated, transformers without changing anything. I wonder if such a supply (to a premises) actually exists?

Kind Regards,
John
 
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Seeing that prompts me into thinking that perhaps the only reason they've decided to call it "2 phase" is because (like the 90 and 120 examples) it shows two live connections. Two live wires doesn't mean two phase, but I do wonder if it's that simple, as wrong as it may be.

As for the 120 deg example, it's rather an odd arrangement, since I doubt there are many applications in which it would be feeding only what are clearly single phase loads, either 240V L-N or 415V L-L. You could actually get a rather lopsided 3-phase from it - Compare the phase of the currents L1-N, L2-N and L1-L2 through a resistive load connected in each combination. Not that it would be of much practical value.


P.S. Then again, I just noticed that those supply diagrams don't indicate any earthed supply conductor anyway, so if really floating all three lines would have to be considered live anyway. But I suspect they're probably assuming that the common point would be earthed in each case, since that would be the normal arrangement in this country.
 
Hence, the IET may well have had exactly the same view of this terminology in 2008 (and perhaps much earlier) as is now explicitly expressed in the 2011 Amendment of BS7671, but were eseentiallybeing silent about their views on all but the two examples of the terminolgy which they quoted - i.e. we actually have no idea what they would have called "2-phase 3-wire" had they explicitly mentioned it in BS7671:2008.
It's been a while since I last saw one, but I would think there must still be a box or a list of options on an installation certificate to describe the supply type. Assuming that's so, if it still listed "1 phase, 3 wire" as an option up until now, that would settle that point.

And what if you supplied the premises with just the two phases and no neutral? Would it still be a 2-phase supply?
Of course not - and, thankfully, the one thing that no-one, and no cited document, has ever suggested in this discussion is that there could possibly be such a thing as a "2-phase 2-wire supply"!

They may well have all been retired from service now, but I know that in some parts of France certainly into the 1980s you could find two wire 220V supplies to homes which were derived phase to phase from the older systems which supplied 127V phase to neutral. It was their method of switching the houses to 220V only without changing out all the supply xfmrs and local distribution arrangements, even though it meant converting to d.p. fusing etc. because of both supply lines being live.

But as you say, just because it's two phases from a 3 phase wye system doesn't make it a 2 phase supply. A 2 wire supply can never provide anything but single phase power.
 
It's been a while since I last saw one, but I would think there must still be a box or a list of options on an installation certificate to describe the supply type. Assuming that's so, if it still listed "1 phase, 3 wire" as an option up until now, that would settle that point.
Very good point. I don't know about 'installation certificates', but absolutely nothing has changed between the boxes available for ticking in the PIR form in BS7671:2008 and the EICR one in Amendment 1. In both cases, for a.c. supplies, there are the same four options:
  • 1-phase, 2-wire
    2-phase, 3-wire
    3-phase, 3-wire
    3-phase, 4-wire
So, despite the 'clarifications' in the text of the 2011 Amendment, there is really no evidence that the IET changed its views on terminology at that time. Mind you, as I posted recently, the text of the Amendment does include (in Fig 3.2 of 312.1.1) something called "Single-phase, 3-wire (0°)", but that is different from the "2-phase, 3-wire (180°)" achieved with a centre-tapped single winding (Fig 3.3) - and it isn't a box offered on the EICR (or PIR) form.

But as you say, just because it's two phases from a 3 phase wye system doesn't make it a 2 phase supply. A 2 wire supply can never provide anything but single phase power.
Exactly.

Kind Regards, John.
 
Seeing that prompts me into thinking that perhaps the only reason they've decided to call it "2 phase" is because (like the 90 and 120 examples) it shows two live connections. Two live wires doesn't mean two phase, but I do wonder if it's that simple, as wrong as it may be.
Interesting thought, but I don't think so - since, if you look at Fig 3.2 (posted above), it shows "Single-phase, 3-wire (0 °)", which also has two Ls and one N.

As for the 120 deg example, it's rather an odd arrangement, since I doubt there are many applications in which it would be feeding only what are clearly single phase loads, either 240V L-N or 415V L-L.
Well, it could p;resumably just be that, for whatever reason, just 2 phases of a 3-phase, 4-wire supply were fed to a particular premises(the diagram does show that third, unexplained, dotted line!), the phases to be used separately for (L-N) single-phase loads. My house has a 3-phase, 4-wire supply, with each phase (+N) broadly supply one of three floors. Should someone at some point decide to split off one of those floors as a 'separate dwelling', then the dwelling comprising the remaining two floors would have such a supply.

Kind regards, John.
 
Are you forgetting the "3-wire" part of the definition?
No, why? :confused: You can have 2 or 3 wire single phase.

And before this apparent sudden change, what did you call it? Single phase or two phase?
I called it split phase.
And did you regard the split phase arrangement as being single phase?

I wonder if the problem is that the words have never been big enough.

I'll try making them even bigger this time, then perhaps you will see them.
There's no need to start getting silly.

OK - imagine I was standing exactly on the North Pole, and across a flat expanse of ice comes the car, travelling in what any external observer would say is a straight line, it passes me, and continues in, to the external observer, a perfectly straight line.

I would say it has changed direction, from towards me to away from me.

And you too are now going to have to say it has changed direction, from travelling north to travelling south.
And now I think you're continuing to be silly by using the north pole as an example, because obviously at the moment you're exactly on the north pole every direction is south. The absolute direction of travel doesn't change as you cross the north pole. For a comparison with a closed circuit, keep circumnavigating the globe so that you pass over the north and south poles each time. You not actually turning around and going the other direction at each pole. In fact it's just like your reference point of standing in one place and seeing a car or train go past you. The direction of travel doesn't change except as seen from your particular reference point. I guess you seem to attach something of importance to that while I don't and look at it as the overall picture.

If you were standing on a large Mobius strip, watching something travel along the edge, then from what you've written in all your previous posts you would not say that it changed direction as it went past you. Let's say it came from behind you and passed you on your right. A short while later you see it coming towards you on your left.

Would you say that it had changed direction?
To relate that as closely as possible to an electrical circuit, no. After all, it makes no difference to the direction of current flow in the circuit as a whole whether we connect point A to point B with the shortest possible length of wire or whether we make that wire do a double switchback with reverse double backflip summersault so that it looks like a plate of spaghetti. The current which flows from A to B with the straight wire will still flow from A to B with the tangled up "spaghetti" wire, regardless of whether or not we zig-zag that wire back and forth so that from our observation point the current travels left to right, then right to left, etc. It's still going from A to B, so it's the same direction the whole time from the circuit's point of view.

If the Mobius strip was too large for you to see that it was one, and you didn't know that it was one, would your answer be the same?[/b][/color]
Sure, I might initially assume that it had turned round somewhere out of sight and was then returning, having altered direction. But that's not what would have actually happened.

That by itself does not make it 2 phases.
So we have two voltages present, which are not in phase, but we don't have two phases?
No. You can only compare the phase of the two voltages by referencing them to some common point. The fact that if you use the c.t. of the xfmr or the mid point between R1/R2 in the diagram above you can then see anti-phase voltages at each end of the xfmr winding does not make it two phases.

Because, absolutely crucially, you haven't drawn it as a 3-wire one, therefore there is no way to access it as a 2-phase 3-wire supply, and therefore there is no way to observe it as a 2-phase 3-wire supply.
Can you "observe a 2 phase supply" here by using an earth reference at the load end?

i3hzli.jpg


But I don't think you'd see that as anything but a single phase supply would you?

If you took the situation of a normal 3-phase supply, and had only two points of reference in it, being the ends of two of the phases, what you would see would be a simple 50Hz AC supply with an RMS voltage of 398v.

Putting aside what you know about our normal 3-phase supply, there would be absolutely no way you could know, or tell, or detect, or determine anything beyond "I have a 398V supply".

If you connected a load between those two points you'd see a single alternating current which at any time was only going in one direction.
I agree with all of that.
But what have you got?
Have you got a 2-phase supply, a 3-phase supply or a single-phase supply?
You've got a single phase supply. It might be derived from a 3 phase system, but the supply itself can only ever be single phase if it's only 2 wires.

If you were circling the earth at the equator, would your direction change as you crossed the Greenwich meridian?
No. How could it if you are still travelling in the same direction? Any more than the current changes direction when it passes either the mid point between R1/R2 going down the diagram or the c.t. of xfmr going up.

Point B is not the common point of a 2-phase 3-wire supply.

Neither is A, C or D.
It doesn't matter. Current behaves the same. Is the current at any of the points A-E arriving from one side and leaving the other? Is the current at the midpoint of R1/R2 or the c.t. (or any other point) of the xfmr winding arriving from one side and leaving via the other, whether the neutral is connected or not?

If you don't think that that constitutes out-of-phase currents in the simple 2-wire arrangement with points A-E, then it's illogical to say that it does elsewhere.

And what about a 3 phase system where you have only three supply lines, such as a delta configuration? How are you going to select a common reference point and see three voltages relative to that point which are all out of phase with each other? You'll only be able to see two. So do you want to call that a 2 phase system now as well? If not, why not?
Interesting.

I think I'm right in saying that you'd call it 3-phase even though you can only see 2 voltages.
Yes, it's 3 phase. You can get three different currents, each out of phase with the other two, by connecting across the three different permutations of L1-L2, L1-L3, L2-L3. And it's the currents which count, as that's what does the work (energises the solenoid, lights the lamp, creates the magnetic field for the motor etc.)

But when you won't entertain the notion of 2-phase when you think you can only see 1 voltage.

Inconsistencies?
Where did I say you can only see one voltage?
 
And before this apparent sudden change, what did you call it? Single phase or two phase?
I called it split phase.
Can anyone tell me when, if ever, this allegedly long-accepted phrase "Split Phase" actually appeared in any edition of BS7671 (or earlier manifestations of The Wiring Regs) or, indeed, in any other writings of IEE/IET?

Kind Regards, John.
 
Very good point. I don't know about 'installation certificates', but absolutely nothing has changed between the boxes available for ticking in the PIR form in BS7671:2008 and the EICR one in Amendment 1. In both cases, for a.c. supplies, there are the same four options:
  • 1-phase, 2-wire
    2-phase, 3-wire
    3-phase, 3-wire
    3-phase, 4-wire
So, despite the 'clarifications' in the text of the 2011 Amendment, there is really no evidence that the IET changed its views on terminology at that time.
So you're saying that by 2008 they didn't have a 1-phase 3-wire option? I wonder when that was dropped then.

Mind you, as I posted recently, the text of the Amendment does include (in Fig 3.2 of 312.1.1) something called "Single-phase, 3-wire (0°)", but that is different from the "2-phase, 3-wire (180°)" achieved with a centre-tapped single winding (Fig 3.3) - and it isn't a box offered on the EICR (or PIR) form.
That seems an odd arrangement to list specifically, as it really amounts to nothing more than two single-phase 2-wire supplies which are sharing one conductor. That conductor will carry the sum of the currents in the other two lines.

I don't know about you, but regardless of the "2 phase 3 wire" issue seeing that diagram seems to suggest that they're really setting up the potential for confusion by now using the term "1-phase 3-wire" to mean something completely different from what has been understood by that term for the last century. In my experience (as a computer & telecom tech) I've already run into younger electricians now who seem to have little real understanding of electrical principles but can quote the wiring regs verbatim as though that's the only thing they've learnt. So I can just imagine some new electrician coming along who has learnt this peculiar definition of 1-phase 3-wire and is going to be completely confused when what he's actually looking at is what the regs are now calling "2 phase 3 wire." So I can't help feeling that regardless of whether the new use of "2 phase 3 wire" is right or not, it's certainly not a good idea to decide that "1 phase 3 wire" is now supposed to mean something completely different from what it's meant since about the 1880s.
 
Can anyone tell me when, if ever, this allegedly long-accepted phrase "Split Phase" actually appeared in any edition of BS7671 (or earlier manifestations of The Wiring Regs) or, indeed, in any other writings of IEE/IET?
I think it's just been more of a colloquialism. I've never bothered to follow the detail of the more recent regs, but I don't think it was mentioned as such specifically back in the 14th edition. I think the regs have always just called it single-phase 3-wire, in the same way as they referred to 3-wire DC systems.

I don't know whether "split phase" would also be understood in other British influenced countries like maybe New Zealand or Australia, but I can tell you that it's not a term which is understood well in the US, despite the fact that just about every residential supply there these days is of the "split phase" type. They just call it single-phase 3-wire.
 
So you're saying that by 2008 they didn't have a 1-phase 3-wire option? I wonder when that was dropped then.
Yes, in terms of boxes on a PIR form, that's what I'm saying. However, I'm not saying anything about it ever having been 'dropped' since my familiarity with this stuff doesn't go back far enough for me to know whether it was ever actually there!

That seems an odd arrangement to list specifically, as it really amounts to nothing more than two single-phase 2-wire supplies which are sharing one conductor. That conductor will carry the sum of the currents in the other two lines.
I agree.

I don't know about you, but regardless of the "2 phase 3 wire" issue seeing that diagram seems to suggest that they're really setting up the potential for confusion by now using the term "1-phase 3-wire" to mean something completely different from what has been understood by that term for the last century.
If it has been used to mean something different for the last century, then I would have to agree. However, as above, I don't know if/when the IEE/IET have used that phrase to have the meaning you refer to. Are you actually sure that this 'common usage since the 1880s' of "1-phase, 3-wire" you refer to is a practice that the IEE/IET have actually subscribed to?

Kind Regards, John.
 
Are you actually sure that this 'common usage since the 1880s' of "1-phase, 3-wire" you refer to is a practice that the IEE/IET have actually subscribed to?
I don't know if the IEE actually adopted it way back in the very early days, but I know for sure that it was in the 13th & 14th edition wiring regs.
 

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