RCBO

[RichTee]

Hi All

I need to install a coffee machine onto its own circuit. The existing connection was from an FCU protected by a 20AMP breaker @ the CU on the RCD protected side of the CU. We have had to relocate the coffee machine.
There is currently an unused storage heater connected to an FCU that goes to the CU on the non RCD protected side of the CU.
Can I simply remove the storage heater and wire the Coffee Machine into the Storage Heater FCU and then change the breaker in the consumer unit to be an RCBO rated accordingly? The cable to the old FCU that the coffee machine used and the cable used by the Storage Heater is 2.5T&E.

Many thanks

Rich

 

[EFLImpudence]

It depends.

13A is the maximum rated fuse that will be in an FCU so 16A MCB/RCBO would suffice (20A is fine).

Storage heaters are normally on timed supplies to take advantage of cheaper off-peak rates;
either by a timed CU which is only supplied at those times or
by a dedicated timer which limits the usage to those times when the whole supply changes to off-peak rate.

RCBOs might not be available for the CU or might not fit.

If these are commercial premises, I would advise you not to do the work but employ an electrician.

 

[RichTee]

Thanks for your reply.
There is no timer on the supply.
I already checked the CU and its fine for RCBOs
The CU is also MK so I beleive it's allowed to put an MK RCBO into an MK Consumer Unit.

Cheers

 

[ericmark]

What @EFLImpudence has said, if domestic the scheme membership might be needed, and commercial need to show your competent, and since asking question that seems unlikely.

I would today want all supplies to be RCD protected in some way, but as to being required that is something else.

I am sure our supplies at work are not RCD protected, but that is not my call. It is hard to stand back and accept it is down to some one else, but some times one has to accept you need to stand aside and let some one else take over.

 

[flameport]

The CU is also MK so I beleive it's allowed to put an MK RCBO into an MK Consumer Unit.

Not a question of allowed - more that will it actually fit, as MK RCBOs have been made in a variety of incompatible styles.

A coffee machine connected via a 13A FCU does not need it's own circuit, and it's entirely unclear as to what circumstances could require one to be hardwired, and even less so how a coffee machine can replace a storage heater.

If this is anywhere other than your own home, you can't make those changes.

 

[RichTee]

Not a question of allowed - more that will it actually fit, as MK RCBOs have been made in a variety of incompatible styles.

A coffee machine connected via a 13A FCU does not need it's own circuit, and it's entirely unclear as to what circumstances could require one to be hardwired, and even less so how a coffee machine can replace a storage heater.

If this is anywhere other than your own home, you can't make those changes.

Yep they will fit already checked.

The coffee machine was already hard wired via an FCU, my bad it wasn't a fused 13A FCU and like I said previously had a 20AMP breaker at te CU.

Not sure what exactly you dont understand, I thought I was quite clear. The storage heater is on an identical circuit to what the coffee machine was on apart from the fact that the coffee machine was on the RCD protected side and it was simple question of can I utilise the circuit that the storage heater was on and swap the breaker out to be an RCBO of the same rating.

I just love people on a DIY forum telling me I cant do this, who says? isn't this forum for DIY'ers, are you an electricion by any chance?
It's my understanding that I can do this providing it is all inspected and signed off, which I have done before and which I intend to do again.
It just so happens I could not get a sparkie for love nor money hence why I have been forced down this route and like I said it wil be checked by an spark.

 

[JohnW2]

.... was already hard wired via an FCU, my bad it wasn't a fused 13A FCU ....

What does that mean?

... It's my understanding that I can do this providing it is all inspected and signed off, which I have done before and which I intend to do again. ...

I'm not sure what you actually understand, but if you "do it", then you'll probably only be able to get an electrician to "sign it off" if he/she is prepared to lie by saying that they have "designed, constructed and tested" the work. Most DIY work in domestic premises does not get 'signed off' by anyone.

The comments to which you are reacting are those which were suggesting that a non-electrician should not really undertake electrical work in commercial premises, if that's what we're talking about (and I personally can't recall any domestic premises that had a hard-wired coffee machine).

Kind Regards, John

 

[RichTee]

What does that mean?

Sorry my bad Im not sure why I said that, been a long day. I meant to say the coffee machine wasn't on a 'Switched' FCU.

I'm not sure what you actually understand, but if you "do it", then you'll probably only be able to get an electrician to "sign it off" if he/she is prepared to lie by saying that they have "designed, constructed and tested" the work. Most DIY work in domestic premises does not get 'signed off' by anyone.

The comments to which you are reacting are those which were suggesting that a non-electrician should not really undertake electrical work in commercial premises, if that's what we're talking about (and I personally can't recall any domestic premises that had a hard-wired coffee machine).

Kind Regards, John

He certainly wont be lying, as I am running everything by him as well, hes just been busy at the moment hence why I decided to post some questions on here. Therefore he will ratify the design, inspect the construction as it will all be first fix and all visible and also test it.
Are you saying he cannot even do that?

 

[JohnW2]

He certainly wont be lying, as I am running everything by him ... Therefore he will ratify the design, inspect the construction as it will all be first fix and all visible and also test it. Are you saying he cannot even do that?

That's how a lot of non-electricians seem to think it works. However, maybe it depends upon the conscience of your electrician as to whether he would be happy to sign this, if he had not actually ever been the person who was "carrying out the construction" - I suppose you can only find out by asking him.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Your forced to connect a coffee machine? I could see how forced to connect a medical life support.

I was asked to do a mechanical job, I refused, I was told I had to do it, there was no one else, I was hospitalised as a result, and foreman asked to resign. And company had to pay of 1000's of pounds.

So as an electrician I may well decide that best option is to fit a RCBO. As @JohnW2 points out then I need to inspect and test and complete the paperwork, so need a RCD tester, the tester will cost over £100, so clearly not worth it for a one off job.

OK as a home owned we bend the rules, I use a cheap tester £25 tester

these don't record time, so to spec required really, but good enough for DIY at home, but not good enough at work, at work unless down as being an electrician I can't even swap a 13 amp plug.

 

[JohnD]

Yep they will fit already checked.

The coffee machine was already hard wired via an FCU, my bad it wasn't a fused 13A FCU and like I said previously had a 20AMP breaker at te CU.

Not sure what exactly you dont understand, I thought I was quite clear. The storage heater is on an identical circuit to what the coffee machine was on apart from the fact that the coffee machine was on the RCD protected side and it was simple question of can I utilise the circuit that the storage heater was on and swap the breaker out to be an RCBO of the same rating.

I just love people on a DIY forum telling me I cant do this, who says? isn't this forum for DIY'ers, are you an electricion by any chance?
It's my understanding that I can do this providing it is all inspected and signed off, which I have done before and which I intend to do again.
It just so happens I could not get a sparkie for love nor money hence why I have been forced down this route and like I said it wil be checked by an spark.

You seem very aggressive and combative. Is that deliberate?

What you are suggesting is very strange and irregular.

It sounds like you are probably working in commercial premises, and are some kind of handyman. Is that right?

There must be some reason why the machine is not simply plugged into a convenient socket. What is this reason?

 

[winston1]

It just so happens I could not get a sparkie for love nor money hence why I have been forced down this route and like I said it wil be checked by an spark.

If you can’t get a sparkie for love or money how will you get one to check your work?

 

[flameport]

it wasn't a fused 13A FCU

There is no other kind.
An FCU is a Fused Connection Unit.
One without a fuse would just be a switch.

isn't this forum for DIY'ers,

DIY is you doing work in your own home, which you own and live in permanently.
Not in any rented property, not in someone else's home, not in a property you own and have paying tenants in, not in any commercial or industrial premises or anything else.

I just love people on a DIY forum telling me I cant do this, who says?

Unless it's you in your own home, this: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1989/635/contents/made