Recommendations for condensing boilers, please

[kevplumb]

probably not but you get one you dont need emergency plumbers

 

[jray]

Fair point, that!

You must be talking serious top end money, then

 

[kevplumb]

ohhhh yes

 

[jray]

Htgeng (or anyone), can you please tell me what you mean by making sure that the boiler has 'weather compensation'? Do you know which other makes would have it?

BTW, I've just seen the prices of the 'top of the range condensing boilers' ...
(but I know it's an investment - gulp).

Also, would it be possible to buy a conventional boiler before the April 1st deadline and have it fitted afterwards (say, June)? Or would you recommend buying a condensing one anyway?

Thanks again
Jackie

 

[Howard]

Whatever you do avoid the Baxi Promax like the plague! It used to be called the Barcelona. Mine worked fine for three years and then started locking out. British Gas have been fourteen times since Christmas and replaced most of the components. I wish I'd opted for a combi!! If you scroll through the posts you'll find at least ten pages of posts from people with similar complaints. Look under "Baxi Barcelona - lockout".

 

[htgeng]

Htgeng (or anyone), can you please tell me what you mean by making sure that the boiler has 'weather compensation'? Do you know which other makes would have it?

Its basically a temperature sensor which goes on a north facing wall. Think how many days we get where it is -3c, ok it might seem a lot right now, but actually its quite rare. Weather comp adjusts the flow temp in sync with the outside temp, so you will never overheat the place. This fact also saves you £££ off your gas bill. Most of these systems also 'learn' the heatloss of the house so they also self adjust. You don't get these features in the £400 special at the orange DIY shed. How many people request these systems? Not many, but maybe its an awareness thing.

BTW, I've just seen the prices of the 'top of the range condensing boilers' ...
(but I know it's an investment - gulp).

Quite, but can you compare a mini-metro to a jag? Think, return on investment. How much are your gas bills right now?

Also, would it be possible to buy a conventional boiler before the April 1st deadline and have it fitted afterwards (say, June)? Or would you recommend buying a condensing one anyway?

If you believe what we tell you about the quality gear, why would you want to buy a obsolete piece of technology?

 

[jray]

Htgeng - Many thanks for your comments and explanations, and point taken. I must admit that I'd never heard of the Viessmann range before, but I've been Googling and finding comments from other users (eg. in Germany - obviously - and in the US) who are singing its praises.

Re the size of boiler, we live in a smallish mid terr 3bed house, and I'm pretty sure we insulated the loft before boarding it over. I doubt if there's any cavity wall insulation, though. We have heavy curtains by the 'doubleglazed' windows (I guess we should look at having the windows redone at some point). Would you still recommend the Vitodens 200 or the 300? We're looking at 28kW - would that be oversized? I've read that boilers don't operate efficiently if they're oversized, or maybe that's just the conventional ones?

We currently have an open vented system (hot water cylinder in bedroom and tank in loft). I know we definitely don't want a combi boiler

Also, would we be able to use our existing pipework to the hot water cylinder, etc? (I think they're 15mm)

Finally, does anyone know of stockists in Greater London (or installers even)? We phoned the Viessmann Customer Services and tried the companies they suggested (eg. PTS and PlumbCenter) but none of them were very helpful.

Howard - Many thanks for the warning about Baxi! Any more warnings would be appreciated, esp about the Vaillant Ecomax 28e which is probably our second choice at the moment (even though it's regarded as a budget option).

Thanks again
Jackie

 

[croydoncorgi]

Its a real shame that most users remain unaware of things like weather (outside temperature) compensation and also useful gadgets such as radio thermostats. This leaves 'specialist' suppliers able to charge stupid money for them as accessories (although in reality they're not THAT complicated!) and plead that the price is justified by lack of market volume. At the same time, the small demand discourages other brands from coming into the market in competition.

You might also have a look at the Keston Celsius 25. Its been around for a while and works for me!

 

[jray]

Thanks for your comments, croydoncorgi.

Is the weather compensation gadget the same sort of thing as being 'frost proof protected'?

Also, something's just occurred to me: I've just realised that Vaillant do different types of Ecomax: eg. the 618/2E condensing system boiler and the Pro 28E condensing heating boiler. Do I need a condensing system boiler (rather than just a heating one) if our hot water cylinder does the heating and the hot water?

Regards
Jackie

 

[kevplumb]

system boiler has the pump expansion vessel etc built in

standard boiler dose'nt


only difference

 

[htgeng]

Htgeng - Many thanks for your comments and explanations, and point taken. I must admit that I'd never heard of the Viessmann range before, but I've been Googling and finding comments from other users (eg. in Germany - obviously - and in the US) who are singing its praises.

Re the size of boiler, we live in a smallish mid terr 3bed house, and I'm pretty sure we insulated the loft before boarding it over. I doubt if there's any cavity wall insulation, though. We have heavy curtains by the 'doubleglazed' windows (I guess we should look at having the windows redone at some point). Would you still recommend the Vitodens 200 or the 300? We're looking at 28kW - would that be oversized? I've read that boilers don't operate efficiently if they're oversized, or maybe that's just the conventional ones?

We currently have an open vented system (hot water cylinder in bedroom and tank in loft). I know we definitely don't want a combi boiler

Finally, does anyone know of stockists in Greater London (or installers even)? We phoned the Viessmann Customer Services and tried the companies they suggested (eg. PTS and PlumbCenter) but none of them were very helpful.

Thanks again
Jackie

From what you say, you need a professional who can design the whole system. not just supply and fit a replacement boiler. pipe sizes may be insufficient and need upgrading.

You'll need something with a max output of 24kw. But also check how low they modulate to. The ATAG drops down to 3.9kw, which is probably enough to keep your house nice and warm if have cavity and good loft insulation.

Weather comp is not the same as a frost stat!

I suggest you contact Viessmann and ask them for local installers. ATAG can help you the same - www.atagheating.co.uk

 

[ChrisR]

Call me a cheapskate but I DO wonder if you're going to get much benefit from a "top end" boiler. I would expect any good non combi to last at least 20 years, and they won't vary much in efficiency. You'll probably be paying more for every service too. So if you pay an extra £800 or whatever for a (great big?) posh boiler, what are you really getting for your money? If you buy a Jag you at least get a comfy quiet ride!

I'd probably go for a Vaillant or a Bosch, though if space is a bit tight I'd be happy with an Ideal Icos/Isar - there's a System boiler which ought to be called an Isys but isn't..

Look at the expected bills and the payback period on the more expensive controls like weather compensation. I'd like to see figures on projected savings. (Try TACMA?)

If you use a System boiler you get rid of the small tank in the loft, and the problems it can cause.

 

[jray]

Call me a cheapskate but I DO wonder if you're going to get much benefit from a "top end" boiler. I would expect any good non combi to last at least 20 years, and they won't vary much in efficiency. You'll probably be paying more for every service too.

I have to say, ChrisR, that when I casually mentioned the cost of the Blue Angel boiler to hubby, he did nearly choke and said that he would be looking to pay that amount to include installation

Look at the expected bills and the payback period on the more expensive controls like weather compensation. I'd like to see figures on projected savings.

Can anyone offer any ballpark figures here, please?

I'd be interested to hear what other people think as I personally wouldn't mind paying a bit extra if it meant having a trouble-free boiler with the ability to run w/m, d/w, upstairs bath and downstairs powershower all at the same time if we wanted it to. It also needs to be very quiet as it's going in a 600mm wall unit in an open plan kitchen/diner.

With those requirements in mind, can anyone offer a ' top 5 league table' of wall mounted condensing boilers (NOT combis) if money were no object? (If I can't even get hold of a Vitodens 200, then my wanting one is irrelevant).

Thanks in advance for your comments - you've been really helpful.

Regards
Jackie

 

[jray]

Can anyone offer any ballpark figures here, please?

Or tell me how to work them out? Thanks