Reconnecting gas after moving meter - pipe and location Q's

[smp50]

Hi. I need to move my gas meter since the pipe [presumably] passes under the walls of an extension I'm building. It's currently on the side wall of the house, and the only other spot for it really will be on the front wall.

From the existing meter there's 1) a pipe that heads down into the ground, runs under a few metres of concrete floor then pops up again to feed the cooker, and 2) a pipe that runs about 6m up and down internal walls and under floorboards to feed the boiler. Like this, schematically:

Questions about reconnecting the supply:

1) Will 22mm pipe have to be used? It's all 15mm at the moment and I know that's not approved of these days. When altering the gas "network" in the house do I have to update the whole thing to meet current regs, or just not make it any worse, i.e. use 22mm for new parts but leave existing 15mm?

1.5) If I don't have to replace everything with 22mm, can I have the new pipe from the new meter simply find its way back to the old meter's location, reduce to 15mm and join up with the existing pipes that way?

2) Can the pipes be run pretty much anywhere I want them to be put (e.g. on internal walls, under floorboards, through walls, whatever...), meaning the minimum disruption (digging up the floors would be a real pain)? Can they run on the outside face of the house at all, or do they have to go from the meter straight into the building/ground somewhere?


Could I end up with something like this:

N.B. - I know that I won't be doing the work myself, don't worry!

 

[AGAS]

you might need to increase the diameter or pipework on new installations , it all depends on the heat load of all appliances and the amount of bends you got . anyway ! your gas installer is there to sort all you need . let him work out what size and route he needs to take . he will work out what size piping you require . you might get away with leaving some in place

 

[smp50]

you might need to increase the diameter or pipework on new installations , it all depends on the heat load of all appliances and the amount of bends you got . anyway ! your gas installer is there to sort all you need . let him work out what size and route he needs to take . he will work out what size piping you require . you might get away with leaving some in place

Will he be willing to tell me in advance how it could work, or only once I commit to the job? I'd just like to know what's possible first, really, as it knocks on to other plans. For example, if I have to replace all the 15mm AND can't run pipe on outside walls, then it means digging up tiled floors and what not. Similarly, getting a feed to the old boiler - if that's going to mean internal disruption then it might tip me towards a new boiler located somewhere easier, and then I won't go ahead with replacing the hot water cylinder that I would otherwise be doing pretty soon.

 

[Agile]

Depending on his business attitude he may well not give you any free information if you have not committed to getting him to do the work. Or at least paid him a consultation fee.

Just why are you so concerned to know if you really intend to get a professional to do the work?

When you ask for a quotation you could ask him what pipe sizes and routing he intends to use. But all he is obliged to give you is that it will meet the regulations.

I don't give free advice on site. I wish that others would not either.

There is a rip off poster on this site who has already called SEVEN gas engineers to visit him to give him free advice!

 

[AGAS]

you get what you pay for. your asking for precise information that an rgi can advise , that is what your paying for after all

 

[smp50]

Just why are you so concerned to know if you really intend to get a professional to do the work?

For the reasons above; this could cause very serious disruption to the rest of the house, or it could be no problem at all. I need to order the works properly, or decide what's even necessary, and can't do that without knowing what they'll actually involve. It's quite reasonable, I think, especially when there may be multiple options.

I ask on forums designed for it like this, rather than tricking tradesmen into a free consultation face-to-face, for precisely the reason you give there. I don't want to bring someone to the site unless I'm confident that they are allowed/able to do the job I'm about to ask them to, otherwise it's a waste of everyone's time

 

[AGAS]

pipe sizing and routes of gas pipework should be easy for rgi to advise. just pay an rgi to assist you , what are you worried about ??

 

[Agile]

Well I would expect that it will need 22 mm into the house and up to the boiler.

It might be possible to tee off in 15 mm to the cooker. That depends on the cooker power and lengths involved and boiler power too.

But I don't really see what difference that makes to you. You need it done as it has to in order to meet the regulations.

Tony

 

[smp50]

Well I would expect that it will need 22 mm into the house and up to the boiler.

It might be possible to tee off in 15 mm to the cooker. That depends on the cooker power and lengths involved and boiler power too.

But I don't really see what difference that makes to you. You need it done as it has to in order to meet the regulations.

Tony

As I mentioned, the difference is in fact quite significant as one option may involve digging up floors and a lot of other fuss. Maybe I'd decide not to bother moving the meter at all, right? As the homeowner I think it's pretty reasonable to know what the work is going to involve before I order it! I'm not one to just submit blindly and come home to a complete surprise, walls knocked through and kitchen floor smashed to pieces when I thought it would be a simple few joints on an external wall.


You're surely not surprised about someone asking questions of this nature on a forum designed for just that? People who come here to post are the sort of people who want to know details and not just hand over a credit card and see what happens.

If what you're saying is that the regs are such that I may have to replace existing pipework depending on certain specific factors, and I may be able to leave it depending on others, then that's reasonable and I'll have to have someone look at it and do some maths.

How about this, then, assuming the who thing does need replacing, at what point does that become obligatory? How much of an alteration to the system can be done before you trigger the obligatory overhaul to modern specs?

 

[AGAS]

How about this, then, assuming the who thing does need replacing, at what point does that become obligatory? How much of an alteration to the system can be done before you trigger the obligatory overhaul to modern specs?

all of it . any gas pipework worked on needs to conform .

As the homeowner I think it's pretty reasonable to know what the work is going to involve before I order it! I'm not one to just submit blindly and come home to a complete surprise, walls knocked through and kitchen floor smashed to pieces when I thought it would be a simple few joints on an external wall.

we don't know what route the rgi wants to take. with the picture you've provided we don't know what the equivalent length of pipework is . the rgi should be able to tell where all pipework will go, that is what your paying for.

 

[smp50]

How about this, then, assuming the who thing does need replacing, at what point does that become obligatory? How much of an alteration to the system can be done before you trigger the obligatory overhaul to modern specs?

all of it . any gas pipework worked on needs to conform .

What I mean is, right now the pipework doesn't meet today's regs, but I don't have to change it just because of that - it can stay as it is but I certainly can't make additions that make it worse.

But if I start to alter things then at some point, when alterations become widespread enough, I will be obliged to replace the whole lot - but at what point?

An easier example is with electrics - let's say all my wiring is black/red stuff, and I put a spur in and of course have to use today's colours for T&E. But I don't at the same time have to re-wire the whole house with new colours just because I added a bit on, i.e. I have "legal" wiring joining up to old "illegal" wiring, which is OK to remain there.

Do you see what I mean? I'm asking if, when I make any change to the existing gas setup, do I then suddenly trigger an obligation to bring the whole lot up to modern spec? Or can I just add new bits while leaving the old bits in place, because the alternative is to leave everything as it is and that's no different really.

 

[AGAS]

But if I start to alter things then at some point, when alterations become widespread enough, I will be obliged to replace the whole lot - but at what point?

there is no certain point that needs the whole lot to be replaced it just needs to conform to the output ( kw ) of appliances .
sometimes you only need to change the first meter or two but the drawing you've provided is completely inadequate to know that

Do you see what I mean? I'm asking if, when I make any change to the existing gas setup, do I then suddenly trigger an obligation to bring the whole lot up to modern spec? Or can I just add new bits while leaving the old bits in place, because the alternative is to leave everything as it is and that's no different really.

you said you wanted to move the gas meter so some pipework is needed. it doesn't matter if old or new is mixed as long it conform to regulations. why are you so hesitant to call an rgi they will tell you what you need know, a proper survey won't cost the earth .

 

[smp50]

sometimes you only need to change the first meter or two but the drawing you've provided is completely inadequate to know that

...it doesn't matter if old or new is mixed as long it conform to regulations.

Thanks, that makes sense. I'll sort out the details and have someone look at it.

Reckon I can time the meter move to fit in with the start of excavations for the extension, or are they not that flexible? That would be handy.

 

[AGAS]

as long as you pay for the rgi time to attend and organise works to your building works schedule you will have no problem .
but please don't start getting different rgi to quote to get information on your works ( wasting their time ) . try and get someone on recommendation , trust is a two way thing . good luck on the project

 

[smp50]

as long as you pay for the rgi time to attend and organise works to your building works schedule you will have no problem .
but please don't start getting different rgi to quote to get information on your works ( wasting their time ) . try and get someone on recommendation , trust is a two way thing . good luck on the project

The meter move itself has to be done by "the gas company", right, not an RGI of my choice? That's why I wonder if I won't have a choice about when it gets done, just got to take the day (probably in November by now) that they offer.