Regs for Doors at top of Stairs

[A1Dan]

Read a few discussions similar to this, but replies are utterly inconsistent, so I thought I'd lay out my specific situation and see if people can give a definitive answer...

I'm looking to put a door, which would swing inwards, into an attic bedroom at the top of the stairs going up to the room. I've seen a lot of talk about the need for 400mm clearance between the top stair and the door, but looking at section K1 of the building regs, everything it talks bout and all the diagrams relate to a door swinging outwards. Additionally, all the rationale I can find for the building regs talks about the dangers of a door swinging out across the stairs and causing an obstruction.
So the way I read them, the regs don't actually specify anything for an inwards swinging door, and I've certainly seem some posts backing that up. But as I say, I've seen other posts which seem to ignore which way the door opens and say 400mm is required anyway.

(In terms of actual usability, rather than regs, the design I'm working on actually has about 250mm clearance before the door, so it's not like the door opens straight onto the step)

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

The landing width and length need to be at least as great as the smallest width of the flight. The 400mm bit is only applicable to a cupboard door not a bedroom door. It was discussed and part K links posted in this recent thread: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...anding-and-new-door-regs.586817/#post-5922572

 

[A1Dan]

The landing width and length need to be at least as great as the smallest width of the flight. The 400mm bit is only applicable to a cupboard door not a bedroom door. It was discussed and part K links posted in this recent thread: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...anding-and-new-door-regs.586817/#post-5922572

I still can't see exactly which part applies... there's this part, but it only talks about doors swinging across landings:

View attachment 373220

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Your diagram only applies to the bottom landing. I thought you were asking about the landing at the top?

 

[A1Dan]

Your diagram only applies to the bottom landing. I thought you were asking about the landing at the top?

Yes, you're right actually, hadn't spotted that. But now I'm even more confused, as there doesn't seem to be anything at all about doors at the top of stairs?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

It says the top in black and white, it may include a door swing within 400mm but only if its a cupboard.

 

[A1Dan]

Ah, gotcha... the references to doors are all essentially red herrings in this situation, it's purely that 1.20 that counts. I think I was distracted by looking for the references to 400mm etc!

Do you have an idea of the rationale for this? Just kind of seems to me that once the door is open (which it is if it's being used), it's basically the same as the door not being there at all, which I guess would be compliant. I can't see how it can cause any kind of safety issue.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I can see all kinds of scenarios where a landing makes it safer, thank goodness you don't write the building regs then!

 

[A1Dan]

Love how you just get smug and sarcastic replies on here, without people actually demonstrating any understanding of anything or answering your question. Maybe the forum should be renamed "makeyourselffeelcleverbybeingadick.com" or something.

 

[wessex101]

Love how when people don't get the answer they wanted they have a hissy fit and lash out at the person who took the trouble to answer their stupid question.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You open a door at the top of a flight of stairs and you need enough space to safely do so, why is that so hard to grasp? I love how people ask the same old questions week in week out without doing a search.

 

[A1Dan]

Love how when people don't get the answer they wanted they have a hissy fit and lash out at the person who took the trouble to answer their stupid question.

You might want to check the edits to freddiemercurystwin's post. Suddenly became a little (though not much, tbf) more informative after my "hissy fit"... it started out as purely taking the **** because I asked a question, made no attempt at all to answer it.

Even as it is I don't think "I can imagine all kinds of scenarios" is a very informative answer... I'm not a mind-reader!

 

[A1Dan]

You open a door at the top of a flight of stairs and you need enough space to safely do so, why is that so hard to grasp? I love how people ask the same old questions week in week out without doing a search.

You're still not explaining what is unsafe about opening a door inwards from a staircase. And yes, I have searched for an answer and not found one, that's exactly why I'm asking... maybe if it's beneath your incredible intellect to give me an answer you could just link to all the other ones that I should have found?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

You're still not explaining what is unsafe about opening a door inwards from a staircase.

You can open the door any direction you like but in any case the landing must be as already mentioned.

You approach the door coming up the stairs, it happens to be closed, you need (what Building control deem) is a safe area at the top of the stairs to open the door so that you can enter the room, for some silly reason they think you should have a full landing to enact that and not some slither of a landing or be half stood on the first step.

Same for exiting the room when closing the door behind you.

 

[wessex101]

You're still not explaining what is unsafe about opening a door inwards from a staircase. And yes, I have searched for an answer and not found one, that's exactly why I'm asking... maybe if it's beneath your incredible intellect to give me an answer you could just link to all the other ones that I should have found?

Two main reasons. As you leave the room possibly at night, half asleep carrying a baby or maybe you are elderly, you need a stable platform where you can stand as you close the door behind you before you start to descend the stairs. Likewise if you are climbing the stairs you need a stable platform to stand on whilst you open the door whilst balancing a tray of tea and toast as you do it.
Trying to make that transition between doorway and stairs whilst perched on a narrow ledge or step is clearly not safe.
As with all statutory regulations they tend to be written to cover the worst case scenario and an analysis of common household accidents. Falling down the stairs is a common cause of serious injury and death, especially amongst the elderly.