Regular condensing boiler thoughts please

[lolly]

Hi guys,
After ages and ages and lots of research into a boiler change i have decided maybe that we are suited to keeping a 'regular'condensing boiler to replace our 24 year old one in the garage, purely down to the pipe runs i think we have rules out the combi (garage around 25 ft away from kitchen tap and bathroom next door) Would i be correct in assuming it best to keep the vented cylinder in airing cupboard (10ft away from boiler apx)
Now, we are thinking of getting a Gledhill HE fast heat cylinder and replacing obviously the Grundfoss pump and 3 port diverter valve and having a magnaclean and replacing new ball cocks in loft.
What are regarded as a good A rated regular condensing boiler please, as i cannot find out much about these as combis are all the rage, so with those i was looking at the usual Vaillant,WB,Viessman.
Please, can any of you experts recommend any particular model that would be bettter suited? Should i still be looking at one with a Stainless steel exchanger? Is there anything else that i should be considering that may have been overlooked?
Many Thanks from a frustrated housewife left to sort it all out!!!

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Broag are well worth a look for a boiler. http://www.avantarange.com/ If you can find a Broag installer locally, I think you can get a 5 yr guarantee on parts.

 

[lolly]

Hi,
Yup, forgot about those and read really good reports, but i dont know anyone down here knows anything about them. Will ask the plumber when i can get any replies from them all, LOL!
Thanks

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

FWIW Vaillant, whilst a good product, seem to be letting themselves down on customer service. WB all seem to have conked out due to frozen condensate pipes when they were needed the most, though in fairness, that could also be poor installation. Viessmann also seem to be getting good reports.

However, having said that I have a Halstead SE regular boiler on open vent system. Most call Halstead rubbish but its been a good little workhorse for me over last 4 years.

If you are happy with hot water performance then keep the cylinder arrangement. (I kept my cylinder, fitted an immersion for HW backup should it be needed.) 3 port valve, go for a Honeywell, far superior lifespan to anything else I think. Pump, Grundfos are possible the best available, personally, if it works, then keep it until it doesnt!

 

[lolly]

I have just taken a look at these on a site that sells them, could only find one though!
Would the Avanta 18v be big enough for a 3 bed bungalow (not large!)
The other ones they sell say system boiler, but are these different?
Does the Avanta 18v go with a seperate water cylinder?
I am digging a deeper hole here for myself and getting more confused, lol!

 

[nogoodatfaultfinding]

FWIW Vaillant, whilst a good product, seem to be letting themselves down on customer service. WB all seem to have conked out due to frozen condensate pipes when they were needed the most, though in fairness, that could also be poor installation. Viessmann also seem to be getting good reports.

However, having said that I have a Halstead SE regular boiler on open vent system. Most call Halstead rubbish but its been a good little workhorse for me over last 4 years.

If you are happy with hot water performance then keep the cylinder arrangement. (I kept my cylinder, fitted an immersion for HW backup should it be needed.) 3 port valve, go for a Honeywell, far superior lifespan to anything else I think. Pump, Grundfos are possible the best available, personally, if it works, then keep it until it doesnt!

Sorry mate the condensation thing with the WB Brand is a design fault.
They even had it as a voice message (to check this first) on their technical line during the cold weather, although in every munufacturers defence we dont allow for weather like we had.

 

[JohnD]

I went for a Viessmann 100 Compact (heat only) and have been happy with it (though it is important to have it fitted by an installer who is experienced in this model, not by his unskilled assistant).

I used to have an old iron Potterton Flamingo, so I expected to make savings in gas due to its efficiency, but I was surprised the last 12 months used only 1157 cubic metres, 20% less than the year to end January 2008 when the old boiler used about 1500 cu metres. The house also warms up faster due to its greater power.

One of the reasons I chose this model was that it is relatively simple so has far fewer things to go wrong than a Combi, or even a System boiler. This is why i went for an open-vented boiler and kept my cylinder.

If installed by a Viessmann-trained installer it has very long guarantee, and the heat exchanger is stainless steel

Viessmann say "STANDARD 3 YEAR WARRANTY ON PARTS & LABOUR INCREASED TO 5 YEARS IF FITTED BY A VIESSMANN TRAINED INSTALLER. 10 YEAR WARRANTY ON HEAT EXCHANGER"
http://www.viessmann.co.uk/prod_vitodens100h.php

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

You will need a regular or open vent boiler. The System boiler has pump, expansion vessel and a few other bits built in. It works on a sealed, pressurised system, doing away with need for a Feed and Expansion cistern and vent. Whilst this is more modern, it also puts the existing pipework and rads under greater pressure so leads to more possibility of an older system springing a leak. I think the Avanta is available as a combi, system or open vent in each size, so any of the system or open vent boilers with work with your system.

IMHO the 15 should be big enough for 3 bed bungalow but your installer should be able to calculate size required. If you're in this area Lolly, I can recommend someone to you. (Not me! )

nogoodatfaultfinding. Thanks for that, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt, but will bear that in mind. Dont do much with boilers thankfully, but its useful to know if someone asks me for a recommendation to a new boiler.

 

[lolly]

Hi,
Thanks for your help lads, its much appreciated.
Yep, i think i have open vented boiler now old Ideal Stelrad wlx rs60, still just chugging, lol! Bit like me!
I am in Essex (not quite blonde yet though!!)
That was another reason keeping to regular, cos of pressure on my pipes, does worry me that, and tbh my present system has served me well, so because have been happy with it,then why not keep it, at least i know what to expect at my kitchen tap, LOL!
Can a normal gas safe install a Broag or Viessmann? I already had a price from Viessmann for combi fitting earlier (when that was the plan!!) but tbh worked out rather too expensive for us for that extra 2 year warranty.
The Broag looks quite straightforward on the tech specs for a fitter to me with all the bits attatched, but can they commission it easy? Is that the right phrase, cos on their site it said something about software and that frightened me, dont know any plumbers around here that walk about with their laptop when installing boilers, heheheee.....
The Viessmann regular boilers i have yet to take a look at on the site, but Pizza is on the way and 2 hungry males to feed, so will take a look afterwards,
Keep yer comments coming lads, you are really helping me out here, my brain is hurting, but the time i have spent finding out about boilers,magnacleans, fittings and systems i might help the plumber out on the day, heheehee....
Cheers
Lolly

 

[JohnD]

Can a normal gas safe install a ... Viessmann?

Yes, but why would you want it installed by someone who wasn't trained on it and couldn't give the full guarantee?

 

[lolly]

Hi,
Thanks for your reply, it was purely down to the price. Not many people use recommended installers for Vaillants, WB so why would these be any different apart from another 2 year warranty?
What i am saying is, i could insure the boiler after the standard 3 year warranty cheaper than the inflated recommended installers price.
Looking at the Broag page they say the boilers are really simple and parts easy to replace etc, so are these 2 makes Broag/Viessman more complicated to work on than the more popular domestic use boilers.
I am not trying to skimp or save on the installation, just trying to find whats best for me and the plumber

 

[Happyplumber]

When someone has to install a boiler and they are approved by the manufacturer they will definitely take extra care making sure the install is done as specified because its his reputation and relationhip with the manufacturer which is at stake

Unfortunately for this he cant cut corners and be fly by night,i have approval for a few leading manufacturers and there is an ongoing relationship whereby they also pass me work,not worth risking this just to make extra few quid.The non approved doesn't have all this to worry about and even if it break down within those three years and the manufacturer say it an install error do you think your installer will come back and put it right? as approved installer this would never happen,and on remote chance which being very remote one would have to put it right at our expense to keep the relationship going.So swings and roundabouts

Make sure to get yourself a tried and tested,highly reliable boiler,one time there were quite a few RGI's recommending these avantas, without any time frame or anything else to back up these facts now few years down the line they are having problems with them

The best test for any boiler is time so pick a well tried n tested boiler by recognized company with a long warranty and one which will honour it

 

[mickyg]

ATAG A20OV or GW Ultracom for me, but each to their own. Get a couple of people in for a quote and see what they recommend. Most heat only boilers are reliable. Have to be a pretty rubbish manufacturer not to get something so simple right(cough...cough....ideal...cough)...

 

[transam]

My personal view is , dont install a boiler that use's ally heat exc's , stainless steel only , I also tend to not use any manu' that use service agents , but this is based upon my experisnce with 1 particular company !
condensing boilers have only been installed enmasse since 2005 , early days , I also have a great deal of faith in boiler manu's who offer 5 year plus guarantees , to weasel there way out of any obligations /warranty claims . We fit J/S reno boilers now , in my view a very good company to deal with!!!


WARNING edited 27th feb 2011 , The Johnson & Starley Reno boilers have proven to be the most unreliable boiler we have ever had the misfortune to install a total disgrace ! I apologise to all

 

[mehran]

i think it is time for alu alloy to out of the dark.

i would never fit a manufacturer that uses cast alu for its hx (ideal for example) but i have now have a intergas boiler in my house that has a injected mold alu hx with 10 year warranty on it.

and a little known fact that viessmann used alu for it 100 when they first came over here. they only change it when they could see a marketing opportunity with stainless steel.