Reillo 40 series takes several attempts to light-SOLVED

[OilLecky]

Ok newfie. I will try to help, no problem.

If you are not home until 16th I hope that the wood burner can cope with the cold weather!!

In the UK we use a kerosene burner fuel which is 28 seconds on the "Redwood Viscometer" scale. i.e. its viscosity. In the rest of Europe I believe that 35 second oil is more common. This is closer to the thicker diesel oil and has to be injected with a higher fuel pump pressure. Often Gasoil burners have pre-heaters on to make the fuel more volatile.

We really need to know what type of fuel you use in Newfie.

It sounds very much like the thing you describe as a fuel filter is in fact just that. Is there another one at the Oil Tank? If, when you remove the flexible fuel hose from the burner oil pump the oil flows freely then your filters are OK. If not then you need to turn off the stop cock at the tank and unscrew the filter bowls one at a time and either clean them or if the element is paper, fit new elements. In cold weather the small amount of water in the fuel is often formed in to a solid lump of ice in the filter bowl thus stopping any fuel flow.

Can you get someone to read off the boiler type or model number and if possible anymore information on the Riello Burner i.e. Riello 40 G5 or G10 or similar? The burner has a dataplate on but I think that it is under the red cover. Loosen 3 off philips headed screws, 1 at the top and 1 each on the lower part of each side.

 

[Newfiestang50]

Ok newfie. I will try to help, no problem.

If you are not home until 16th I hope that the wood burner can cope with the cold weather!!

In the UK we use a kerosene burner fuel which is 28 seconds on the "Redwood Viscometer" scale. i.e. its viscosity. In the rest of Europe I believe that 35 second oil is more common. This is closer to the thicker diesel oil and has to be injected with a higher fuel pump pressure. Often Gasoil burners have pre-heaters on to make the fuel more volatile.

We really need to know what type of fuel you use in Newfie.

It sounds very much like the thing you describe as a fuel filter is in fact just that. Is there another one at the Oil Tank? If, when you remove the flexible fuel hose from the burner oil pump the oil flows freely then your filters are OK. If not then you need to turn off the stop cock at the tank and unscrew the filter bowls one at a time and either clean them or if the element is paper, fit new elements. In cold weather the small amount of water in the fuel is often formed in to a solid lump of ice in the filter bowl thus stopping any fuel flow.

Can you get someone to read off the boiler type or model number and if possible anymore information on the Riello Burner i.e. Riello 40 G5 or G10 or similar? The burner has a dataplate on but I think that it is under the red cover. Loosen 3 off philips headed screws, 1 at the top and 1 each on the lower part of each side.

Not sure what viscosity the oil is but I would guess its the 35 sec stuff because I have heard that some people run it in there diesel equipped vehicles which is illegal here. As for the model of the riello 40, I will try to get my wife to have a look.

The oil burner has no problem keeping up, temps are right around zero here in Newfoundland and the oil burner does start after a while, it just takes more than one attempt on most tries. Strange, but sometimes it will go on first try.

There is only one fuel filter installed, it is inside next to the boiler and there is about 18" of fuel line between it and the burner.

There is no preheater on this installation unless its part of the burner assembly, but there is nothing outside the burner that could be a preheater, that I am sure of.

 

[oilhead]

Riello supply a preheater for the Riello 40 range of burners. It comprises of a new nozzle holder which incorporates a heating element, and there is an attachment to the control base which controls the element. Basically, when the burner is energised, it heats up the element, and when heated, it makes an internal switch which starts the normal burner process.

 

[OilLecky]

Thanks for your assist oilhead. I know that these pre-heaters exist but I've never actually come across one.
I am of the believe that Canada probably uses 35 sec oil but am not sure.

Newfie, Check on the New Yorker boiler website to see if your boiler's manual is there then check on the Riello website and get a copy of the burner manual. If you tell us the details we can talk you through what do do by refering to the manual diagrams etc.

I also forgot to mention that there is another fuel-filter in the end cap of the burner fuel-pump. You have to remove 4 allen screws to get to it. If you do resort to cleaning the filters do not forget to "bleed" them afterwards. The in-line filter bowls normally have one or two screws in the top which you loosen to let out any air. When fuel flows freely from the holes, then the filter is bled. This also applies to the fuel pump. Get the Riello burner manual and we can tell you which plug to loosen on the pump to bleed it.

You also might like to check for any signs of oil leaks around the burner and pump. Ask your wife if the boiler area smells badly of oil, particularly first thing in the morning (Presuming [but somehow doubting!] that your boiler may go off overnight?). It is possible that when the boiler is off there is a small oil leak, which is replaced by air, thus causing starting problems. When the burner finally starts up the leaked oil can evaporate and the evidence is then missing. This is sometimes found with fuel pump leaks.

 

[Newfiestang50]

I'm not familiar with New Yorker boilers but if you give me the model number I can look it up on their web-site. Also which Riello 40 is it?

It is a riello 40 F5. I was on their website but cannot find any manuals. Anyone know where I could find it?

 

[Burnerman]

Newfie, if you don't mind waiting for snail mail, I have a copy of the Riello Burners Training Manual I'll be happy to post to you.
John

 

[OilLecky]

Is this any good? I didn't see a 40 F5 though. What about the boiler model no etc?

http://www.rielloburners.co.uk/index.php?section=99&page=1284

 

[Burnerman]

I'm looking at info for a F40 -5...wonder if thats it?
John

 

[Newfiestang50]

Ok, found the manual online. Here is the link for those trying to help me.

http://riello-burners.com/5_riello-vip/_members-vip/2_manuals/residential/40_F3-F5-rev3.pdf

Now I just need to find what model boiler I have. For some reason it is not on the boiler info plate attached to the boiler.

Here is the link to the company that makes my boiler.
http://www.nythermal.com/caprice

I emailed them with the serial number hoping they will get back to me with the model number. I know it is the Caprice but not sure which size it is. When I get that maybe we can begin some troubleshooting.

thanks

 

[Newfiestang50]

Newfie, if you don't mind waiting for snail mail, I have a copy of the Riello Burners Training Manual I'll be happy to post to you.
John

Thanks, but just found it.

 

[OilLecky]

I have looked at the manual that you found and if you look at page 5 item 16 this is the pressure gauge and oil bleed point.
Have you cleaned out / replaced any filter elements, including the one inside the cover of the fuel pump? If so, loosen this beed point and let oil flow out. If you are brave, put a tinfoil container under it, cover it with a pad of paper towel and switch on the burner for a few seconds. Oil should come out at quite a rate when this is done. Then close the bleed point.
Make the burner electrically safe and remove it from the boiler. Is the combustion head (page5, item 10 ) around the nozzle clean and are the ignition electrodes set as per page 11?
Loosen the screw on the side of the Primary Control box (Page 5 item 2) Pull the Primary Control Box to the rear and remove it from the burner. Locate the photo-cell inside the Primary Control Box (page 18 item 25) now make sure that the side of the photo-cell facing into the burner is clean.
Really this is all that you can do without a multimeter or oil pressure gauge. If you have a multi-meter then check the motor capacitor's capacitance and check that the photo-cell changes resistance feom being in the dark to when you shine a torch at it. If you have a oil pressure gauge then check that the pressure is required rfor you nozzle size as per the manual. Im pretty sure from what you say and looking at the oil pressures given that you rae running on 35 second Gasoil. i.e. diesel. Good Luck

 

[Newfiestang50]

Ok, think I got it fixed.

the following is a list of what I did but not sure which one item solved the problem because I did it all today in one outage.

1. Removed in line oil filter assembly and cleaned and replaced filter. This was long overdue since it was the original filter and the furnace is 7 years old.
2. Fixed small oil leak at filter assembly. Not sure where exactly this leak was but after cleaning all components of the filter assembly the leak is no longer present.
3. Removed nozzle assemble and cleaned all components with WD40. This unit was heavily covered in soot (spelling ?) including the electrodes. Referred to manual and checked all measurements of electrodes to nozzle and to the best I could see these were pretty close to manual numbers so I left it untouched.
3. Checked photo cell with multimeter and torch, it works fine.
4. Referred to burner and boiler manuals and adjusted air damper to recommended starting point. The manual listed 2.75 on air damper for nozzle size of 0.85 at a flow rate of 1.00 gph. This was down from as found adjustment of 3.25 on the air damper.
5. Cleaned inside of burner cover.
6. Purged oil line by gravity to filter and then to burner pump.

That pretty much covers it, once complete I fired the burner and I must say it sounds alot better, it just sounds quieter and the burner actually seems like its running better. Tried 10 restarts and it fired up everytime, this would definitely not happen before.

Also, I took some pictures but not sure if I can upload them to this site or not. If anyone wants to see them let me know and I will try to post them.

Thanks to everyone who helped, this forum is great.

 

[OilLecky]

Too much air going in can cause the burner to "bang" on start-up and also cause unreliable starts. Dirty filters, electrodes and blast tubes can also cause the realiability problems.
Either way, it sounds like you fixed it! Well done!!

The next thing to consider is the "soot" that you saw. Was it just a hard black coating or was it loose and flakey soot?
You need to look inside the boiler to see if there are heavy deposits of soot in there. If there are, then clean it out. Lack of air causes sooting but it looks like you had too much air!
If you saw only a thin, hard black coating then that is OK but if it was loose soot and you have reduced the air flow then it will soot even more.
You really need a "soot-pump" and a flue gas analyser to set the thing up properly.
If you remove the burner again and take a look at the front of the blast tube for fresh soot and there is none then well and good. If there is some then you need to increase the air flow until there is no soot at all.