Replacing ceilng rose with JB (regs question)

[hvendlor]

I'm renovating a bathroom in an old house. It currently has a single light/ceiling rose. The ceiling is in a bad way so we've created a suspended ceiling (ie, lowered it a little bit by creating a timber frame to be plasterboarded).

I want to install 4 downlights. The easiest thing would be to just run a new cable from the exisiting rose (or a JB) into the first downlight. I've done this before but it doesn't seem to comply with regs as the JB is inaccessible. It's in the void between the new ceiling and the old ceiling and can't be accessed either from above or below.

What exactly is the 'proper' way to do this?

Whenever I've done inaccessible joins before that are behind plasterboard I've always soldered and heat shrinked but I've only done that when joining two cables. This is a bit different and I don't see an easy way to solder and insultion all these joins.

 

[ColJack]

crimp connections are acceptible as a permanent connection..

there are also "push type" connectors that claim to be compliant with the permanent or accessible connection rules....

someone will no doubt be able to provide a link to these..

EDIT: hey look, it was me...

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/ASJ804.html

 

[hvendlor]

I've never been a fan of crimp connections. Perhaps I just can't do them properly but they never feel 'solid' enough to me, always a little wiggle.

Never heard of push type connections

 

[Spark123]

You can get junction boxes which can fit through the hole for a downlighter, are these mains lights? Are any of these lights in the zones of a bathroom under the 16th edn regs?

 

[GaryMo]

I've never been a fan of crimp connections. Perhaps I just can't do them properly but they never feel 'solid' enough to me, always a little wiggle.

Buy a crimping tool fit for purpose.
A correctly crimped connection won't pull apart or have any movement within.

 

[flameport]

The ChocBox and connector strips as found on this page:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Necessities_Index/Connector_Strips/index.html
are one way. If there won't be a downlight near the existing rose position, remove a section of the old ceiling and move the cables so that they can be reached via one of the downlight holes.
Use 15A connectors - although in theory 5A will be suitable, the 15A ones will make it much easier to fit the cables in.

Crimp connections are an excellent method of joining cables, BUT only when done properly. This means the crimps must be suitable for the size and type of wire (stranded or soild) and the crimp tool must be matched to the crimps. Preferably both should be from the same manufacturer.

Buying a random bag of crimps at a market stall for a quid and using one of those press and hope tools is not going to work.

 

[JonoPashley]

Out of interest does anyone here have experience with the click flow jb type jobbies on TLC?

 

[hvendlor]

You can get junction boxes which can fit through the hole for a downlighter, are these mains lights? Are any of these lights in the zones of a bathroom under the 16th edn regs?

One of the lights is in Zone 2, the rest are zone 3

 

[hvendlor]

The ChocBox and connector strips as found on this page:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Necessities_Index/Connector_Strips/index.html
are one way. If there won't be a downlight near the existing rose position, remove a section of the old ceiling and move the cables so that they can be reached via one of the downlight holes.
Use 15A connectors - although in theory 5A will be suitable, the 15A ones will make it much easier to fit the cables in.

Crimp connections are an excellent method of joining cables, BUT only when done properly. This means the crimps must be suitable for the size and type of wire (stranded or soild) and the crimp tool must be matched to the crimps. Preferably both should be from the same manufacturer.

Buying a random bag of crimps at a market stall for a quid and using one of those press and hope tools is not going to work.

It's hard for me to move the cables. Getting in the loft is no easy task.

Regarding crimping. I'm no expert, is it possible to crimp 3 wires into 1 crimp butt terminal?

 

[Spark123]

As they are in the zones, this work is notifiable under part p of the building regs.
Are the lights mains or ELV?

 

[hvendlor]

Gonna use low voltage and trannies. Sick of GU10's blowing all the time.

 

[flameport]

It's hard for me to move the cables. Getting in the loft is no easy task.

In that case,

remove a section of the old ceiling and move the cables

Regarding crimping. I'm no expert, is it possible to crimp 3 wires into 1 crimp butt terminal?

No. They are designed for 1 wire in each end, doing anything else will result in a defective joint.
3-way crimp connectors do exist, but good luck finding anywhere that sells them in small quantities.

If you need to permanently join 3 wires, soldering is the easiest option.
1. Strip about 1 inch of insulation from the end of each wire.
2. Tin the ends of the 3 wires (coat with solder)
3. Place the 3 wires next to each other and bind them tightly together with a short length of tinned copper wire (15A fuse wire can be used).
4. Heat the joint and apply solder.
5. When cooled, cover with heatshrink and enclose in a suitable box (the chocbox for example).

 

[flameport]

Sick of GU10's blowing all the time.

Easily solved with one of these these items which will provide a 2 second soft start.
Can still be used even if you want a normal on/off switch - just use the module and a normal 2 way switch wired in the usual way.