Replacing old, large ball spotlights with smaller downlights

[Antiriad2097]

I currently have 4 ball spots in my front room, they're the old R63 bulb type. These replaced a previous set from years ago.

Problem - the holes have enlarged over various refittings, so they no longer fit flush with the ceiling, they drop.

While I'm sorting this out, I figured I'd replace them with neater, smaller modern ones - I'm thinking mains GU10 downlights.

Since the hole radius on the new lights is smaller, can I cut some ply to put up in the old hole with the correct diameter for the new lights, then use this as a base to fill in with filler before the plasterer comes in to skim the ceiling, or will the ply be a fire hazard with the heat from the light?

 

[Taylortwocities]

The downlights will need to be suitable for mounting on a flammable surface.
Such light fittings have an "F" mark - an F inside an upside down triangle.

Not to be confused with Fire-rated downlights, which are a completely different thing.

But why use plywood? Surely it would be easier to repair your ceiling with squares of plasterboard and cut new holes in there.

Even better, repair your ceiling with squares of plasterboard, have your plasterman skim the ceiling and fit a pendant in the middle of the room.

Fantastic, no downlights, at last the room is propery lit and you can see what you are doing…..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If you're repairing the ceiling and having it made good, get the holes filled in and put in lights which are designed to do the job of lighting up rooms, rather than lights which are actually designed to not do that.

If you currently have 4 R63 lights you'll need a lot more than 4 recessed 2" diameter torches, so it'll be swiss-cheese ceiling time. Or proper lighting which does the job you need it to.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

If you are having the ceiling over-skimmed, then get the plasterer to repair the holes properly. Cut holes square, then cut slightly larger plasterboard to slide in to hole, stick in place with either board addy or bonding. Then fill out once set with bonding and skim then whole ceiling.
Remember to do a ceiling plan for where the cables are in the ceiling void and re-cut/hole for lights.

 

[Antiriad2097]

Fair comment, plasterboard it is then. It was the plasterer who suggested I'd need a joiner in to sort out the new lighting arrangement, so I was working on the basis it needed some support up there.

The plan is, as suggested, to replace our old dim centre light with a pendant for the main light.

Mrs likes the look of the smaller lights though, as much as a style thing as for lighting, so I figured I could pop some angled GU10s in to retain the look and give some level of directional lighting in addition to the pendant. It also means I don't have redundant wiring forgotten up there, which is my own greater concern for the future - at least with the lighting up there it can be inspected to some degree for continuity if nothing else.

On the plastering side, I take it since I'm getting someone in to plaster/skim the old artex, that the finish on the join of my patched section isn't terribly significant, since he should be able to work with that.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

It also means I don't have redundant wiring forgotten up there, which is my own greater concern for the future - at least with the lighting up there it can be inspected to some degree for continuity if nothing else.

You cannot leave redundant live cables, without terminating correctly, ideally you would make the unused part of the circuit permanently dead. I personally have no objections to people wanting downlights, but others on here have issues with them, they were not original designed to be used in domestic properties, but they have much improved in recent years.

On the plastering side, I take it since I'm getting someone in to plaster/skim the old artex, that the finish on the join of my patched section isn't terribly significant, since he should be able to work with that.

Not providing it is filled in correctly, not sure why your plasterer suggest the use of a joiner, that would worry me. It is a simple repair, cut the round hole of lights, either square or rectangle. The cut a piece of plasterboard about 35-40mm larger than the hole. If you stick a screw in the middle of this, this will give you a holding point. Some dry-wall or bonding compound around the perimeter of hole, within void, slot the cut board up through hole, then pull down on the addy with screw. Leave overnight to dry, then fill out the recess with either wall adhesive or bonding compound, leaving level with existing ceiling.

 

[OwainDIYer]

You can get adapter plates to turn big holes into small ones.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MLHCW.html

and similar

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

You can get adapter plates to turn big holes into small ones.

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MLHCW.html

and similar

But the ceiling is getting over-skimmed anyway, so you do the repair.

 

[Antiriad2097]

You cannot leave redundant live cables, without terminating correctly, ideally you would make the unused part of the circuit permanently dead. I personally have no objections to people wanting downlights, but others on here have issues with them, they were not original designed to be used in domestic properties, but they have much improved in recent years.

That was my point. Fitting replacement lighting seems to me to be the lesser of the two evils over working out the electrical side to remove it completely. At least from the POV of what I can reasonably achieve on my own.

It is a simple repair, cut the round hole of lights, either square or rectangle. The cut a piece of plasterboard about 35-40mm larger than the hole. If you stick a screw in the middle of this, this will give you a holding point. Some dry-wall or bonding compound around the perimeter of hole, within void, slot the cut board up through hole, then pull down on the addy with screw. Leave overnight to dry, then fill out the recess with either wall adhesive or bonding compound, leaving level with existing ceiling.

Thanks for the screw tip.

And of course, thanks to all for the advice here, helpful as always. In retrospect, this process does seem fairly painless once you know how it should be done.

 

[sparkwright]

If the ceiling is being skimmed, I would cut out massive 400 mm approx squares out of the ceiling between two joists - so the replacement piece of plasterboard can be screwed to two joists.

This way there will be no possible obstruction for fixing the new downlighter in place, and no chance of cracking when it's put in place.

 

[Antiriad2097]

Almost finished, only the last two lights to wire in tonight now the adhesive has dried.

I cut out squares of plasterboard round the old hole.

When I did this, I angled the cut approx 45 degrees so there's a lip. Let's try some ascii art to indicate:

---\ hole /---

I then cut my corresponding patch to fit:

\____/

This let me sit the patch in place resting on the lip, so I could mark up where the new hole needed to be on it.

Cut the new hole in the patch, then put adhesive round the rim of the hole. Inserted the patch, then used the new hole to pull it down in place against the adhesive, squeezing out the excess that I wiped clean, leaving my patch level with the rest of the ceiling so no filling in needed.

Seemed sturdy enough when I put the first couple of lights into the sections I did on the first night.