Repossessed property - EDF want a certificate to reconnect

[saf1973]

Hi All,

I recently bought a repossessed property and the Electrical supply had been disconnected by EDF. When i purchase the property a month ago i phoned EDF and they told me that "by law i needed an installation certificate because the property had been vacant for some time"

After phoning some locals sparks they all told me that they never heard such a thing. So i phoned EDF again and this time the operator told me that it isn't law until after the property has been empty 1 year, so they booked me an appointment, just 1 day before the year was up.

However, they didnt turn up and are now demanding a certificate before they reconnect my supply.

Firstly what certificate are they requesting? I asked EDF for a BS or Electrical Reg number but they couldn't tell me.

Secondly, i am a qualified electrician to 16th edition but am no longer registered as it hasn't been my career for a few years, can i complete the certificate myself or does it require a registered electrician?

I thought an Installation certificate only applied to new or modified installations, this is neither, its just a simple reconnection.

Help please, i have been having arguments with EDF over this and im shelling out on hotels at the moment, this repossession is getting more expensive each day!

 

[rebuke]

The law is the electricity supply regulations, which (as far as I am aware, I haven't got a copy to hand to review fully) don't specify any requirement for certificates. EDF insist on one however, claiming it's for health and safety reasons (basically it's so that if something goes wrong because of your install, you can't try and sue them claiming they shouldn't have connected it, i.e. they are covering their arse). In theory if you quote relevant parts of the supply regulations at them, you might be able to get them to hook it back up without a cert, but I've not been in this situation so don't know for sure...

As for what certificate is required, an EIC isn't really relevant, since as you say it's not a new install, the only thing that really comes to mind is a PIR, but the problem is you can't do all the tests required for a PIR (or an EIC for that matter) without having power, as various tests need it (EFLI, RCD tests etc) - so it's kind of a chicken and egg situation.

I'd ask EDF exactly what certificate they require, and see what they say. For reference, they'll almost certainly insist on it being sent in by a qualified electrician (they'll want scheme membership details to prove this) - again not sure on the legality of them requiring this, but there you go...

 

[saf1973]

So if its not law then this is probably why none of the telephone operators have been able to give me the BS number or Elec Reg, all they quote to me is an "Installation Certificate" - which isnt relevent in this case.

Unfortunately the property is in a block of flats and the isolator\meter is in an riser which i dont have access to, if only it was in the flat then i would have this issue!

 

[rebuke]

So, looking in a copy of the supply regs found online (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1988/Uksi_19881057_en_7.htm#mdiv25 - not sure if this is the latest version), I can see regulation 27:

General conditions as to consumers
27.—(1) No supplier shall be compelled to commence or, subject to regulation 28, to continue to give a supply to any consumer unless he is reasonably satisfied that each part of the consumer's installation is so constructed, installed, protected and used, so far as is reasonably practicable, as to prevent danger and not to cause undue interference with the supplier's system or with the supply to others.

(2) Any consumer's installation which complies with the provisions of the Institution of Electrical Engineers Regulations shall be deemed to comply with the requirements of this regulation as to safety.

So I suppose they could claim under (1) that they need to be satisfied that the installation is safe, and the way they require you to do it is under (2), i.e. they need some sort of certificate to prove it complies with the IEE regs (i.e. the wiring regs - BS7671).

 

[rebuke]

Although I really should research properly, the supply regs have been superseded by the Electricity Safety, Quality and Continuity Regs 2002. Looking at these (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20022665.htm), theres:

25. - (1) No person shall make or alter a connection from a distributor's network to a consumer's installation, a street electrical fixture or to another distributor's network without that distributor's consent, unless such consent has been unreasonably withheld.

(2) A distributor shall not give his consent to the making or altering of the connection referred to in paragraph (1), where he has reasonable grounds for believing that -

(a) the consumer's installation, street electrical fixture or other distributor's network fails to comply with British Standard Requirements or these Regulations; or

(b) the connection itself will not be so constructed, installed, protected and used or arranged for use, so as to prevent as far as is reasonably practicable, danger or interruption of supply.

 

[saf1973]

I have just read through an EIC ...

http://www.clacksweb.org.uk/form/252.pdf

Firstly it states that it can be completed by a competent person (page 2), as i am qualified to 16th edition, did a 5 year apprenticeship and was in the trade for several years i would class myself as competent. Although Page 1 does kind of say a current registration is required.

However, it does state that the EIC should only be used for new or modified works... so it doesnt apply! Maybe a Visual Inspection Certificate is more appropriate?

very confusing, but EDF told me that they always get EIC for disconnected props.

 

[Pengwyn]

I would phone them and ask exactly what they require.
The regs say nothing about being a registered spark, only competant so there is no reason why you can't do it yourself. Unless of course they want someone with insurance, just in case something does go wrong.

I suspect they only want a cert to cover there own arse so a PIR filled in as far as you can do without a supply may suffice.

If the call centre monkey can't give you a definate answer then ask for someone from a tech dept to speak to.

Good luck.

 

[plugwash]

I'd say do as much of a PIR as you can without power, record the results on a PIR form, put in the limitations box that you were unable to do live tests. Send them that and see what they say.

 

[Spark123]

A PIR should be done to the current edn of the regs i.e. the 17th, as you don't have any knowledge of them they you'd be better calling in someone who does. They can do the inspection and do the dead tests, the live testing will have to wait until it is energized.

 

[saf1973]

UPDATE:

After 6 weeks of agro with EDF and lots of digging around with certs & regs and converstions with other sparks, i gave them one last phone call. I balled them out on the phone (again) and told them I wanted the supply connected as an emergency call out. Within 3 hours the engineer was there, no certificate required, just a quick look around and then reconnected the supply!!!

So, it seems its pot luck with which call centre operator you get and which engineer you get.

No need for certs or reports by law it would seem for simple reconnections, i guess his quick look around constitutes a domestic visual inspection to satisfy the engineer is was safe.

Now if only i had got that call center operator on 6 weeks ago i would have saved on hotel bills!!!!

 

[ColJack]

try charging them.. send them a letter explaining the situation and how it was eventually resolved without the need for all the bull you were given..
attatch a copy of the hotel bills that they have forced you to endure.. and ask if there is going to be any recompence for your inconvenience..

even if it's only a few quid knocked off your first quarter bill then it's better thatn nothing..

 

[hairyben]

I've had this conversation with EDF, basically like said they want to cover A's and the fact of the matter is don't really understand what an EIC/PIR is and whats required to produce one, their engineers don't know how to read it anyway, insisting on a certificate just sounds clever and right. I'm tempted to fill one out with "comedy" results just to prove the point but the £500 "wasted call" fee kinda puts me off, evan though their engineers have never done more than glance (if that) at the part-completed cert.

You'll probably get away with doing your own limited PIR on a green form, if you're worried get a nic bloke to do one for you. You never really know with EDF, it's all down to the engineer in charge, planetary positions and which way the winds blowing.