Indeed, but that seems to be getting away from the specific RCD issue toward the more general issue of whether it's justifiable to continue to try to advise on how to proceed if it becomes clear that the questioner is really completely out of his depth and unable to do a safe job (which may well be the case even if he were going to try and add RCD protection anyway).
Reworded RCD Poll
- Thread starter JohnW2
- Start date
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Sure - but, as you say, that is different. If an OP has been told, and accepts, that there is a requirement for RCD protection of new sockets but, nevertheless, decides that (s)he is not going to comply with that, that does not in any way indicate that they are 'out of their depth' (indeed, you or I might even make such a decision
).If, in different circumstances, they clearly are 'out of their depth', one obviously wants to discourage (or, at the least, not encourage) them from proceeding with the work. The difficulty/dilemma I see (which BAS does not see as a difficulty or dilemma) arises if they are clearly 'out of their depth' (and/or 'stupid'/reckless) but are equally clearly determined to press on, with or without advice. In such cases, if one feels that there is advice that could be given that would make things 'less dangerous' for them, then I think there can be an argument (although very far from ideal) for giving that advice.
Kind Regards, John
That's the biggest danger I see. And for those who really need some sort of guidance to do a safe job, I feel that "going on and on" about something like RCD's can have the tendency to detract from other advice which addresses something far more serious.
Somebody might search around and find comments which confirm that the socket he wants to add wasn't even required (by BS7671) to have RCD protection just a few years ago and that qualified electricians would have happily installed it without then and certified it as perfectly safe and compliant. Maybe he even had an electrician in to fit the existing sockets, without RCD protection, a few years ago. What then, is he to make of somebody "going on and on" about how "dangerous" it will be for him to add that socket without RCD protection now and berating him endlessly for being irresponsible for even thinking about doing it? The problem is that when he then comes up with something which really would be quite dangerous (or at least far more risky) and that same person tries, just as passionately, to dissuade him from doing it, he's liable not to take that advice as seriously as he should because of the previous haranging he got about the RCD, which he's dismissed as being "over the top" after finding out the facts about it: "Oh, it's so-and-so going on excessively about the Nth degree of extra safety again."
I am surprised at you John for hiding the votes, just because they don't support your musings.
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I'm not quite sure what benefit hiding the voting has either. Is it likely to change the way anyone votes?
Seeing who has voted in combination with his comments, or seeing that some people are voting but not getting involved the debate might also be more beneficial to assessing what different types of people (currently qualified electricians, other technical types, avid DIYers with a little knowledge etc.) actually think about it.
Seeing who has voted in combination with his comments, or seeing that some people are voting but not getting involved the debate might also be more beneficial to assessing what different types of people (currently qualified electricians, other technical types, avid DIYers with a little knowledge etc.) actually think about it.
I don't really understand. My 'musings' were (and still are) based solely on the differences in numbers of votes, at a time when I didn't realise that I had unwittingly made the poll 'non-secret'.
The default is for votes to be secret, which is the standard configuration for such polls. As I've said, when I clicked on that box, I thought I was making the (number of) votes visible to people who hadn't voted, not that I was making everyone's voting visible to the world. When Paul pointed out to me what I had done, I felt it appropriate to restore the poll to its default 'secret' status, since that is what I think most people voting would assume to be the case.
I would happily change it back to non-secret, but I now find that I can't - that box has now disappeared! If you, or anyone else, feels strongly, I could ask the mods if they are able to change it.
Kind Regards, John
I've explained. The tradition for such polls is that voting is secret, so I imagine that's what most people would assume to be the case (and some might not want their voting behaviour to be visible to all). Hence, when you pointed out to me that I had unwittingly made it non-secret, I felt it appropriate (for the sake of those who might prefer their voting to be secret) to restore the poll's behaviour to it's default. As you will have seen, I now find that I cannot know 'turn the secrecy off' again!
Kind Regards, John
Fair enough, although I'm pretty sure I saw a notice come up when voting which specifically said something along the lines of "Your vote will be publicly viewable."
Absolutely.
You get a message stating "Your vote will be publicly viewable."
You get a message stating "Your vote will be publicly viewable."
Fair enough. I didn't see such a message (otherwise I wouldn't have been so surprised when you told me that the votes were 'public'!) - but maybe that's because it is 'my poll'.
Do you, or Andy (or anyone else) want me to see if I can get the votes made public again??
Kind Regards, John
You could, but at this point we may well not get many more votes anyway, so not sure if it would be that beneficial. Perhaps extending the "No" option to cover the possibilities we mentioned above would be more helpful, but that would depend upon all those who already voted to recast their votes, or starting yet another poll, which I suspect the majority would now probably find tiresome after all this debate,
How do you know who has voted for what, and in which poll(s)?
I'll see if anything can be done, but will first wait a little bit to make sure that no-one wants to jumps in and say that that they don't want their vote to be publicly visible.
As I said in response to a similar comment/question at the very start of this thread, I've already used up all of the available characters for the poll question and poll answers.
Kind Regards, John
Read the last dozen or so posts in this thread. I asked the same question, only to be told that I had unwittingly ticked the box that made all votes visible. I've turned that off now, and don't seem to be able to turn it back on. You can still see 'who voted what' in the original RCD poll if you wish - just click on the place where itr says "X votes".
At least this 'facility' might help us to speculate about pseudonyms of anyone who casts multiple votes
Kind Regards, John
AFAIAC, anybody pathetic enough to do that has nothing to say which is of any value whatsoever.
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