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Ring Main Socket Pass Through & Cooker Circuit

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by loopy66, 4 Mar 2021.

  1. loopy66

    loopy66

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    Hi all. I am having a new consumer unit fitted very soon as I am on a really old fuse box which has been extended over the years (previous house owners) and it looks like something from North Korea. The new consumer unit is being done by a real sparky by the way.

    The house is currently all on one ring main, with dedicated circuits each for shower and cooker. When the new unit is put it, I will be having the kitchen on its own circuit.

    In prep for this I need to run new 2.5mm cable for the kitchen and put in a new cooker isolation switch in the kitchen as the current one is too far away and under the stair cupboard!

    So, I have two parts to this for the prep as follows...

    To save disruption and ring main traces cut out and re-splice the main ring main (this all needs to be done in one day ideally), I will be prepping by taking off the sockets in the kitchen and "passing the existing ring main cables through" and then connecting the sockets back to the new 2.5mm for the dedicated kitchen circuit. I was originally going to use connector blocks but then saw the following two products and felt they might be even more ideal, one for each Live / Neutral / Earth, stick them back in the backbox and put the socket back on. My question is, is this right and ok?

    Wago 2-Way Lever Connector 221 Series 32A
    https://www.screwfix.com/p/wago-2-w...00/8421r#product_additional_details_container

    Ideal SpliceLine In-Line Wire Connectors
    https://www.screwfix.com/p/ideal-sp...00/72727#product_additional_details_container

    My 2nd part to this is the cooker, I have a new cooker ready to be connected to the new circuit. The existing cooker is a Kenwood range, max power 4.85.kW and is connected to a 30A fuse and an isolation switch (but which is too far away).

    The new cooker is also a Kenwood range but newer model with power rating of 3.78kW. I am ripping out the old cooker circuit totally and running new cable to a new modern isolation switch close to the cooker. I was going to run the radial to the switch and then leave the cable coiled up where the new consumer unit will be but, upon a bit more reading on the Curry's website where we got the cooker it says, "this product requires hardwiring to a 17 amp fuse", then it also says "32 amp, requires hardwiring to a dedicated circuit". I get it that it needs it's own circuit and hence running this in but, what is the deal with the 17 amp hard wiring, where does that come in??

    I want to get all this prepped ASAP so when I book the spark he can come in and pretty much rip out the North Korean style fuse board mess and connect up the new consumer unit. Any help on these 2 items is very much appreciated.
     
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  3. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    I don't really understand what you intend to do with the ring circuit in the kitchen.

    Do you mean you are going to connect the existing cables together and then connect the sockets to new cables?

    If so, I think that a daft idea.


    There are no 17A fuses so if the instructions do state that then I would be wary of anything else they say.

    You can either extend/alter the present 'cooker' circuit to the new position or run a new one - either the minimum for your oven or a standard 'cooker' circuit like the present one.

    From what you write, I think it would be wise to let the electrician design a do the work.
     
  4. loopy66

    loopy66

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    Hi EFLIpudence. The intention is as you describe, take the existing sockets off, connect the existing ring main wires together using the connectors I linked to above, then put the sockets back on with new cables which are then on its own circuit. This was suggested by an electrician as a means to prevent tracking/tracing wires which in this house, could run anywhere (I even have a wire going diagonal up a wall). Yes the house needs re-doing but, it isn't happening anytime soon.

    The method suggested would mean the existing ring main can take the same route it does now but does not have sockets connected anymore in the kitchen, they just "pass through".

    Regards the cooker, sounds like we just ignore the weird 17A thing?
     
  5. securespark

    securespark

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    I'm still not sure exactly what you are trying to achieve.

    Can you sketch a diagram and post it here?

    As for the cooker, run a new length of 6 Milli cable from the CU to the desired position and terminate with a DP switch.
     
  6. loopy66

    loopy66

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    Sure no worries, I will draw a diagram shortly and post it. Please don't laugh if my drawing is a bit pathetic :)
     
  7. securespark

    securespark

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    All my drawings are pathetic! Don't worry!
     
  8. loopy66

    loopy66

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    Fingers crossed the attached picture explains far better than my words. The top diagram is the current ring main on the fuse box, it goes all around the house including the kitchen. I need a new CU immediately to replace the fuse box and would like the kitchen on its own circuit (dishwasher, washing machine, tumble dryer and other things like mixers etc the wife likes to have running at the same time). Lifting up floorboards, taken down ceilings etc is not an option and so, to get he new CU and a new kitchen circuit it was suggested to do it like the bottom diagram which is, connect the existing ring main together behind the sockets in the kitchen and run new ring just for the kitchen sockets.

    Basically, the house ring stays how it is in the walls, ceiling, floors etc but now has no kitchen sockets on it, the main house ring main now just passes through the kitchen sockets. I hope I am making sense now :)
     

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  9. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Drawing is ok.

    I see what you are trying to do.

    It's probably impossible to advise without knowing the exact route of the cables but I don't like the idea.

    As the kitchen will use most of the current on the circuit, and the rest of the house very little does it matter?


    What about making the present ring two 20A radials and disconnecting the cable at the last socket before the kitchen both sides (if both sides have sockets)?

    upload_2021-3-4_16-54-27.png
     
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  11. loopy66

    loopy66

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    Unfortunately the first socket coming out one side of the existing ring is the first socket in the kitchen so if I disconnect it, it goes nowhere else. This would have been a good solution. The rest of the layout is potentially very random so hence just trying to leave it in situ, the house can be fully re-wired in a few years time.
     
  12. loopy66

    loopy66

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    Would you be able to advise off the bat though that it's not against regulations to begin with, what I was intending to do?
     
  13. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Then just one 20A radial and disconnect the socket on the other side.
     
  14. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    Might not be against the regulations, but I don't see the point.
     
  15. SUNRAY

    SUNRAY

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    If I understand correctly you have this sort of layout, IE the kitchen is the first part of the ring and you can get access to each end of the kitchen:
    upload_2021-3-4_17-26-35.png

    In that case split it once and run two new cables from the CU to one point:
    upload_2021-3-4_17-29-13.png
     
  16. SUNRAY

    SUNRAY

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    Or this with join in kitchen socket:
    upload_2021-3-4_17-39-15.png
    Oh and excellent drawing, it describes your plan perfectly.
     
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  17. loopy66

    loopy66

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    Food for thought here, appreciate the inputs.

    I have just been using a metal/cable scanner on the walls and using that with my memory of some wires when the edge of floorboards were up before carpet etc, trying to draw a picture of the ring how it is today but unfortunately, I lose the wire at the end of the kitchen! It goes up the wall and simply stops! Unless it's floorboards up and potentially even part of the kitchen ceiling coming down, I don't think this ring can be traced effectively. When they did the kitchen extension they clearly extended the ring circuit but, lord knows how and where!

    Not sure what to do now. ie, the original idea seems easiest but obviously getting the hint from here it shouldn't be done like that. The original sparky advised he was going to do it like I originally diagramed but I am using a different guy now and was hoping to make life easy by prepping the wires so he can just connect up.

    Hurting my head abit with what to do for the best. :unsure:
     
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