Sack the plumber!

[PeedOftec]

Anybody had any experience of having to sack a plumber off the job for incompetence?

I have an ongoing job that will never progress to completion; the plumber comes to fix one problem and causes two more. He has never refused to come back but 2 years down the line everybody’s patience is running thin!

He is still owed money but I have zero faith in his abilities to complete the job satisfactorily.

Basic faults like the plastic f&e tank is not fully supported, timbers holding the large domestic cold water tank bowing alarmingly, lack of control on the wood burning stove, electric wires hanging lose, live feeds running along earth cables, leaks from oil tank contaminating soil, pushfit overflow pipes becoming disconnected, no soakaway for condensate overflow to name but a few... The list goes on and on. As I pick up on the faults, yes, he comes back and fixes them (to a degree) but I am not prepared to do his snagging lists any more, all I want is a safe system that works, complies with all the regulations, as per the specifications of the quote.

Where do I stand if I refuse to let him come back any more? He has already threatened to take us to court if we refuse to let him back to fix the faults and withhold payment. Ideally I would like to sack him, employ a proper heating engineer to assess the work and charge him for someone else to put it all right. Does that sound reasonable?

Alternatively I am prepared to let him take me to court and counter-sue him for fixing this bodge job...

 

[Deleted member 105431]

pay cheap, get cheap.

 

[Bahco]

He has never refused to come back but 2 years down the line everybody’s patience is running thin!

You should give him a medal if he is still coming back after 2 yrs!

Time to bite the bullet and not let him in your house again. I would get someone else in to sort it .

Was he cheap?

 

[PeedOftec]

pay cheap, get cheap.

I wish, I only wish that was true.... This guys quote was 25%... yes TWENTY FIVE PERCENT more than the MOST EXPENSIVE!! That's what sticks in my throat... Next time, I will get the jobbing, out of the back of the white van man, cash in hand, to come and do it.... Stuff the HETAS certs, (wet and dry) the OFTEC certs, the GAS Safe, member of APHC registration, it is not worth a toss!

Well ****ed off.......

 

[shorky]

most of us are plumbing & heating engineers, our qualifications dont quite stretch to the law of the land, try consumer rights!

 

[BlueMoonMole]

1. 25% more expensive NEVER = a 25% better job. You've based having work done on entirely the wrong ethos. You should have asked for references, a portfolio of work and a suggested plan of action.

If you're willing to spend a lot of money, you deserve the above. You deserve somebody spending the time to explain themselves, and provide adequate evidence that a good job will be completed.

2. If he's a member of;
HETAS - Report him.
OFTEC - Report him.
GAS SAFE - Report him.
APHC - Report him.

Are we getting the picture?

The initial 3 may not necessarily be concerned unless he has left 'safety issues' behind. But you never know, you may well be 1 of a thousand others who has complained, and this may spur an investigation.

Also, as a member of APHC, much like IDHEE and IPHE, I imagine he'd come up for inspection with them.Other than doing the above. Please stop moaning and get somebody else in to fix the problems.

We're a forum of qualified, time-served and experienced Tradespersons. We're not Agony Aunts, and this is not the Daily Mirror.

Please, please, PLEASE! seek somebody else, and tell the Plumber who keeps returning what you've told us.

"Yeah, the thing is. You're not very good, and I'm not impressed. So, I found someone else. Kthanksbye."

 

[Tibbot]

Reading through your posts, you seem remarkably over involved in the technicalities of the project for someone who claims to have just had a detailed quote and gone with it (in the old fashioned client/supplier way).

Could it be that you're actually in control of this with an incompetent plumber working under your instruction? There are a few inadequacies in your story to be as simple as you describe.

 

[PeedOftec]

Thanks BlueMoonMole... We tried to make sure we were doing the right thing by checking the HETAS website and getting a "certified" plumber. He came through to the property, did a "survey" that cost £75 (refundable) and he came across all confident of his ability to do the job. The other "certified" plumbers who we got to quote did not appear to have as much faith in the system proposed.

We visited his showroom, read the letters of recommendation and decided, yes, despite the extra cost involved he was the one to give us the best job.

I feel aggrieved at having to spend more of my hard earned money to fix the bodge he has created here with, what appears at the moment, no recourse for compensation.

 

[PeedOftec]

Reading through your posts, you seem remarkably over involved in the technicalities of the project.....

LOL... Yes, I have had to get "over involved" in the technicalities.... I will give you one example...

A new Worcester boiler was fitted by this plumber and the instructions for fitting it were left with it, he was busy installing something else... I sat down and read through them and it came to the bit about the condensate overflow... Mmmmm... me thinks, why has he just left a pipe outside dribbling down the bricks onto the lawn when it mentions in the instructions feeding into drains or a soakaway... He was quite prepared to just leave it like that but me... I had to get "over involved" and I looked up the building regs about soakaways, got my spade out and dug one twice the size needed and fed a pipe into it because the plumber "hadn't quoted" for installing a soakaway?? What else could I do?

Just now we have minimal hot water and I couldn't figure it out, the 20kw wood stove had been ticking over slowly all night but next day there was hardly any hot water... Me again getting "over involved" sussed out that one of the 3 f&e expansion pipes was actually SUBMERGED in the f&e tank thus creating a circuit around the flow from the f&e tank and we are losing all the heat out of the thermal store overnight and the plastic f&e tank is as hot as the store... And no, before you ask, the woodstove hasn't been boiling up, we have checked that. (Plus the f&e tank is not fully supported and is starting to sag off the sides of the board, again I have got overly involved in the regs I guess, but surely the regs are there for a reason!!)

Maybe I should just be ignorant of the regs, just like the poor old lady who has just had a new system fitted down the road who expects the job to be done properly. Laid in her bed at night with a tank of scalding water in the loft above her???

Yes, I'm overly involved in the technicalities....

 

[PeedOftec]

Yes, I'm overly involved in the technicalities....

My childrens lives could depend on it........
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[mointainwalker]

As I understand it, you should give him notice by recorded delivery letter that he has 'x"weeks ( 3 ?) to correct all faults or you will get someone else to fix them and deduct it from any monies owing.

 

[PeedOftec]

As I understand it, you should give him notice by recorded delivery letter that he has 'x"weeks ( 3 ?) to correct all faults or you will get someone else to fix them and deduct it from any monies owing.

Great, will do that.

Cheers....

 

[BlueMoonMole]

Maybe I should just be ignorant of the regs, just like the poor old lady who has just had a new system fitted down the road who expects the job to be done properly. Laid in her bed at night with a tank of scalding water in the loft above her???

- I use this exact same tale in my Teaching.

Anyway, in reference to everything else, write him a letter, and contact the relevant Governing Bodies.

He's registered as a Competent Person, and thus they must be informed.

Other than that, you seem to know whats wrong, why not fix it?

You'll only end up spending silly money anyway?

What needs doing? Water needs isolating, taps opening and a few pieces of board need sliding under the tanks?

Easy peasy!

 

[Tibbot]

LOL... Yes, I have had to get "over involved" in the technicalities.... I will give you one Yes, I'm overly involved in the technicalities....

You misunderstand. I am suggesting (based on your history of posts) that you might be the architecht of your own disaster. Eg. You've been directing traffic from the start and your plumber (if he exists) is simply carrying out your instruction albeit incompetently. The clue is in the bit you wrote about all the other plumbers 'not having faith in the system proposed'.

Are you sure this is not a DIY project gone wrong?

 

[PeedOftec]

You misunderstand. I am suggesting (based on your history of posts) that you might be the architecht of your own disaster. Eg. You've been directing traffic from the start and your plumber (if he exists) is simply carrying out your instruction albeit incompetently. The clue is in the bit you wrote about all the other plumbers 'not having faith in the system proposed'.

Are you sure this is not a DIY project gone wrong?

Sorry, I understand now... No, the only thing I was involved with was saying to the prospective plumbers I would like a new oil boiler connected to my existing new unused wood stove to do hot water and rads with potential to connect to solar in the future...

I proposely have not been involved in "directing" events otherwise the plumber would have come back at me and stated "that is what you told me to do" and washed his hands of me long ago. At times I have purposely kept out of it and purely stated what was wrong with the system eg, when you turn the hot tap on it will eventually run cold despite having a full tank of hot water... and left the plumber to work it out.

I had checked out the "plumbing diagram" for the thermal store and knew pretty much straight away what was wrong, there was a direct feed from the cold supply, bypassing the hot tank (more head from the cold feed) and this was going straight to the hot taps!!

Well he was cutting pipes here, installing loops there... eventually I could not stand it any more and "advised" him to RTFM!!! I don't think he even knew what the symbol for a non return valve was TBH....

I despair with his lack of ability...
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