Salamander pumps

Internal stopcock partially closed/blocked, tap filters blocked, hose bore too small, wrong washers on taps/connections etc.
I've come across tap washers used to seal the hose connections...the washers have a hole diameter of just a couple of mms for the washer screw.
 
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OK, what you will need to do now is cut a piece of 15mm pipe and then a bib tap into the mains just after the stop cock to get yourself a proper reading as to what flow your mains, once in the property, can deliver.

6L/Min is crap, especially if you have 2 bar dynamic pressure. Even if you have flexi pipes @ 2bar pressure they should still be flowing much more than 6 L/Min. As @Gasguru mentions, you must have a restriction somewhere and you need to work your way back to understand where that is if you want to sort all of this out. That is if what your supplier has stated is correct, did you see them measuring and if so, how did they test it?
 
Yes I did see them measuring it.

They were using one of those jug type of things, that pour water into it and a little thing floats by the gauge. I didn't see exactly how much he was getting and can go on by what he said.

As regards to measuring the flow at the property, it will be a bit of a pain as the pipe work is all 22mm copper into loft, then branches around to different outlets before being reduced to 15mm to drop down to the outlets.

Is there other options for flexible connectors ?

Also, even if the flexible hoses are the problem for poor flow, doesn't explain why the shower is poor as that doesn't have flexible connector. 15mm copper into it!
 
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Pull out the washing machine, remove the filter washer and time the flow to fill a 10 litre bucket.
Have you checked for filters in the taps...either in the airator or inlets?
With the static pressures you quote you should be getting significantly higher flowrates.
Who installed the new MDPE line outside?
 
We were doing some building work outside. So the builders ran the pipe all the way to the outside and Yorkshire water terminated it into the meter.
 
Haven't checked for filters, but as the problem has always been the same and not getting worse, I am assuming this is not related to the filters? Or are you saying filters can restrict things?
 
ok , so have done another test.

The outside tap is taken off the same cold supply as to the kitchen tap. Basically a T piece that goes to the outside, then a isolation valve with flexi pipe and into the kitchen tap.

I have done the flow to fill a 10l bucket with both cold and hot supply.

Cold takes 90seconds and the same for hot.

But when doing the same test for the outside tap ( obviously only cold flow), it is taking 20second to fill a 10lt bucket!

The bathroom tap and the bath tap both are the same as the kitchen one.

Any thoughts?

If the flexipipes are the limiting factor, what is the other choice for them?
 
If you can fill a 10L bucket in 20secs giving approx 30L/Min @ 2bar dynamic then your mains supply is fine.

It's you internal feeds/outlets that are the problem. Your shower is crap because it's electric and it gets even worse in the winter when the cold water gets colder.

The rest then you will have a mixture of narrow flexi pipes/waterways and possibly water saving aerators on the spouts.

If you can get 30L/Min @2 bar to an unvented hot water cylinder then you will be able to move over to a mains fed shower if a combi, with it's single outlet at a time constraint is an issue that can't be worked round.
 
ok, thanks.

Couple of questions:

1. How can I make the tap better? You mention the water saving aerators, is it a part of a tap or something that comes off them? Also what do people fit between the tap and the main water pipe? if not using flexi pipes?

2. How does the unvented hot water cylinder work? Does it have to be mounted at the highest point in the house?

3. Would the homeboost or Accupump help at all?
 
In reverse order -

Your mains is fine, no need for a homeboost or accupump

An Unvented hot water cylinder connects to the mains cold water and is heated by your boiler, it then delivers what hot water at the same pressure and flow as the mains cold.

I'm a bit bemused at the output of your kitchen tap though, even with small bore flexi pipes and aerators you should be getting more than 6L/Min from each side unless they are water saving taps and if so then they are working as designed. I'd look to change the taps with items that gives you a decent delivery rate if you need increased flow.
 
I don't get why an unvented is being recomemended.

There is clearly nothing wrong with the water supply.

Filters strangely enough filter carp out of the water and consequently can block. Clearly once blocked the flowrate suffers.

Just pull apart the flow restrictors or filters etc in the taps and see if the flowrate improves....unless you've bought some imported taps designed for very high pressures.

The filter may be part of the aeration device (that can also block) screwed into the tap outlet.

You may also find the filter in the shower is partially blocked or a restrictor has been fitted in the shower head (or elsewhere) and that is blocked.

The combi boiler is sufficient for a vastly improved shower over the electric....of course the boiler itself has a filter and flowrate limiter and again these can block.

End this obsession with adding a pump....you do NOT need a pump.
 
ok, no problem

Just triyng to work out why the flow is not good.

Looking at the unvented cylinder, it looks as if it also has a heating element, and only a cold water supply. There is no hot water in? Seems the eletric immesion heater is what heats it upo, or are there ones designed to be fitted to a combi boiler.

The tap is a mixer tap bought from B and Q. It is a Cooke and Lewis ( the one in the kitchen), but to be honest I don't mind the kitchen ones and the bath room as they are ok and although flow is not very good, it is still useable.

The kitchen tap I have is this one: https://www.diy.com/departments/coo...tchen-pin-side-lever-mixer-tap/1583491_BQ.prd

The main problem I am trying to overcome is the issue with the electric shower.

I will do a descale of the shower head.

Apart from that, any idea what I can look for a diagram to find where the filter for the shower might be to see if it is blocked?

I might also try a pair of these on the kitchen mixer tap to see if they flow the water any better than the flexi pipes: https://www.toolstation.com/flexprotect-antimicrobial-flexible-tap-connector/p97516

They seem to have a bigger bore ( 13mm) compared to the 10mm one I have at the moment.

Edit >> I have just seen this on the description of the tap: Fitted with a Neoperl water saving aerator that regulates the flow of the tap and helps you save water with every use

Does this make it flow less? Is the aerator the bit that is screwed to the end?


Edit 2 >> ~Kitchen tap sorted. I removed the aerator from the end of the tap, and the flow is double what it was! both hot and cold. So it seems the flow is ok there and it was the tap design that is doing that.

So now need to work out why the electric shower is so bad.

If you think the combi boiler will be ok to provide shower with hot water, then I probably use that for the upstairs shower when coming to fit it in the next few months and leave the one downstairs as electric as a second bathroom.

If the flow is not very good , can a pump be fitted to the shower? or can you not fit pumps to combi boiler fed systems? I like to have powerfull shower!

Edit 3 >> ( the last edit I promise ) : I just tested the shower with it turned to ice cold. The pressure out of the shower head is really good. Almost like a power shower. but the downside is that it is ice cold. As soon as you turn up the temperature, the flow/pressure drops considerably. Is this normal for electric unpumped showers? Is there a better shower than can be used to replace this to give me a good flow? I do have 10mm cable all the way to the CU unit for when this shower was put in, so the cable will take the supply if a better option is available.

the one I have is this one: https://www.victorianplumbing.co.uk...atic-electric-shower-frosted-glass-1-1634-001 although I didn't pay for it that much! VP seems to be double everywhere else!

Will something like this be a better option for me as it is a pumped shower?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-eli...ncU2z0TxLL0dzBEG2yYaAjLbEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
 
Last edited:
Stop this mad obsession with pumps.

You DO NOT NEED A PUMP.

Just to be clear....

You DO NOT NEED A PUMP.


And the same advice goes for an unvented cylinder.



If you look at the kitchen tap it says

"Comes with 2x 1/2" BSP female flexible braided hose with built in PRE-FILTERS and fixings and installation instructions"

so you might like to check those filters as we've asked you to do on several occasions.

Then check the other taps for filters in their inlets, airators on their outlets, isolation valves partially closed etc.

Your shower is only 9.8Kw...that power input will never give a decent shower especially in the Winter when the incoming water temperature can be as low as 5 degrees.
No electrically heated shower will ever provide a powerful shower. When you turn the temperature to a colder setting it just allows water past the heating element at a higher flowrate hence it's cooler.
Turning the temperature up slows the water to enable it to be heated to a higher temperature...and the flowrate reduces.

Get a thermostatic shower and use the combi to supply the hot water to it. You will get a vastly superior shower since the combi can supply 30Kw of heating energy compared with your electric showers 9.8Kw.
You will also benefit from the price of gas being significantly lower...so cheaper running costs to offset the new shower valve. Keep the electric shower as backup.


And fitting this....
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-eli...ncU2z0TxLL0dzBEG2yYaAjLbEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

NO NO NO NO NEVER EVER.
 
Looking at the unvented cylinder, it looks as if it also has a heating element, and only a cold water supply. There is no hot water in? Seems the eletric immesion heater is what heats it upo, or are there ones designed to be fitted to a combi boiler.
Unvented cylinders can be heated by an electric element or from an external gas/oil/other boiler, or from solar panels, or in some cases all of those things.

So now need to work out why the electric shower is so bad.
Nothing to work out - it's bad because it's an electric shower. Just like all electric showers are, and always will be.
If you want a better shower, you will need a different type of shower.

As soon as you turn up the temperature, the flow/pressure drops considerably. Is this normal for electric unpumped showers?
Yes, that's how all electric showers work whether pumped or not. Can't be changed or improved. At a useable temperature rise you will get about 5 litres per minute - it's limited by the amount of energy that can be put into the water, which is limited by the electrical supply being a maximum of about 10kW.

Will something like this be a better option for me as it is a pumped shower?
https://www.screwfix.com/p/mira-eli...ncU2z0TxLL0dzBEG2yYaAjLbEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
No, completely useless. Did you not see the description where it states:
Delivers 4Ltr/min at 0.8bar ?

There is nothing wrong with your water supply. You do not need a pump.
If you want a decent shower, then forget about electric ones. They cannot provide what you want.
 

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