Shop lights keep tripping

[Lectrician]

How many sunbeds?

Do they all draw 50amp?

Are they all grouped together in the fuseboard?

What make fuseboard?

A substantial load like this on lots of different MCB's should have had some serious consideration on how to supply the constant load. Domestic CU's are not designed for these types of constant load.

 

[JohnHamer1977]

Hi Lectrician -

2 sunbeds

yes, they draw 50amp each

Configurations are as follows...

it used to have both rooms on one 6amp breaker:
63 / 63 / 32 / 6(the one that tripped) / on-off

then I added another breaker to split the rooms:
6 / 63 / 63 / 32 / 6(the one that tripped) / on-off

now I took out 6(the one that tripped) and put a new one in a diff position:
6(new breaker) / 6 / 63 / 63 / 32 / BLANK PLATE / on-off

Yet to see if the latter new position and new breaker makes a differance, but it's intermittant and could not happen for weeks.

It's not always a constant load to be honest.
The majority of the time it's very low... lower than a typical houe etc
But @ peak time we have periods where it is busy on the sunbeds so for a few hours they go on and off, lets say 6mins on 3 mins off.
Obviously with 2 of them this sometimes overlaps so they can be both on.

I just got the CU my electrician told me to (he's not normally a domestic type spark as a day job) - I know him from out old factory "Stanley Tools").
The sunbed manufacturer and sunbed installers (they told us what to fit and inspected it was OK before coming to install) plus United Utilities (after we we checked to see if we needed 3 phase) and obviously my mate the electrician were OK with everything inc CU
I trusted them really... not deffending it... just trying to give the info.
The CU we replaced was the same sort of thing but had the old Wylex type breakers and it just looked old.

What do you think I should have used for a CU?
Do you think that the CU is the problem?

cheers / thanks to all that are helping

 

[securespark]

I would have thought a 3P supply was in order, with a sunbed on 1P. another on the second & the rest of the electrics on the third.

 

[bernardgreen]

Hi Lectrician -

2 sunbeds

yes, they draw 50amp each

50 amps = 11.5 KiloWatts

That is a lot of energy to shine on a human body.

It more than a bar-b-que all over

 

[Spark123]

I don't have a Electrical Installation Certificate - I ran the wires... my mate (the electrician) installed the consumer unit and terminated connections there.

I thought you said all wiring is to IEE regs? IEE regs require the installation to be inspected, tested and certified before being put into service.

I don't know the impedance, how important is this?

Very important, I thought you said you and your mate were both qualified??
You have up to and including 63A MCBs on circuits that have not been checked for disconnection times? I'd have put that down as very important. What make and type of CU?

In the consumer unit you have in total top of my head:
32 amp
62 amp (sunbed)
62 amp (sunbed)
6 amp (front room - 9 halogens)
6 amp (back room - 10 halogens)

Supply size is 100A

Maybe it's me, but 2 circuits that run at 50A each on a 100A supply don't leave much room for anything else??
I agree with Dingbat and stand by what I said before, you are clearly out of your depth. Please call a qualified electrician before you end up killing someone.

 

[Steve]

Can the OP post a picture of the innards of his CU?

 

[ayen]

Are you stupid? get a electrician in to test the full install. You are running a commericial venture which members of the general public use your 50amp sunbeds ? save a penny today and then when you kill some one pay for the rest of your life as you will have no defence!?!

 

[JohnHamer1977]

Are you stupid? get a electrician in to test the full install. You are running a commericial venture which members of the general public use your 50amp sunbeds ? save a penny today and then when you kill some one pay for the rest of your life as you will have no defence!?!

Are you stupid - read the ****ing post!!! Dimwit

 

[JohnHamer1977]

I don't have a Electrical Installation Certificate - I ran the wires... my mate (the electrician) installed the consumer unit and terminated connections there.

I thought you said all wiring is to IEE regs? IEE regs require the installation to be inspected, tested and certified before being put into service.

I don't know the impedance, how important is this?

Very important, I thought you said you and your mate were both qualified??
You have up to and including 63A MCBs on circuits that have not been checked for disconnection times? I'd have put that down as very important. What make and type of CU?

In the consumer unit you have in total top of my head:
32 amp
62 amp (sunbed)
62 amp (sunbed)
6 amp (front room - 9 halogens)
6 amp (back room - 10 halogens)

Supply size is 100A

Maybe it's me, but 2 circuits that run at 50A each on a 100A supply don't leave much room for anything else??
I agree with Dingbat and stand by what I said before, you are clearly out of your depth. Please call a qualified electrician before you end up killing someone.

I have no paperwork - I just got the job done.

My mate is qualified and is an electrician so I'm pressuming as one he knows what he's doing certainly United Utilities engineer or sunbed installers didn't mention or flag anything up.

I am a ex-project manager, now beauty salon owner with an old engineering ONC that covered electrical basics so I am "competant" to fit some halogens.

You have up to and including 63A MCBs on circuits that have not been checked for disconnection times? - they are for the sunbeds... what are you getting at?
Have you thought of a way this i making my lights trip?

Make of the CU is Proteus - from CEF.

No the 2 50a don't leave much room but I have had advice from United Utilities, the sunquest engineers and installers and it was fitted by a qualified electrician.

I am clearly not out of my depth asking questions on a forum to gather information.

Frankly... I think you are on a mission to look for holes in what I say rather than trying to help which is wearing a bit thin now.
Nobody is killing anybody - are you for real?
So I stick to what I said - if your not gonna help, then don't comment.
Stop with the get a qualified electritian comments as well, you clearly not reading and taking in what's been said as all of that info is perfectly clear.

 

[bernardgreen]

Are you stupid - read the f***** post!!! Dimwit

Hving read the very first post I see you have problem with the 6 amp trip for a lighting load of at most 3 amps ( inrush current ) tripping at random.

Neither you nor your "electrician" can solve the problem.

So the combined skill base available to you is not adequate for this problem solving exercise.

There is free help and advice here, that is probably why you came here.

The advice to have the electrical system properly designed, installed and then tested is sound advice and you should take it on board. If that had heppened it is most un-likely that you would be having this problem with the lights.

 

[JohnHamer1977]

no sorry - I don't think it's stupid to try and solve the problem, my electrician hasn't had a look at the problem.

I believe some people on here and in real life do have enough combined knowledge to offer advice.

I probably came here for advice you say???
erm, in a word - yes?

Getting the electrical system designed properly?
I'm pressuming it is!!!
Tested?
I'm pressuming it is!!!

yes, that happened, and I am having a problem with tripping lights .



Again, I'm sorry but I think you might be reading deeper into this than it actually is.
It really is simple.
I rent a shop, I notice the CU looks old, I get a mate to change it, I get sunbed manufacturers and installers to check my system is OK to do what I want with it, I get United Utilities round to tell them the plan and take there advice, I change the old lights for new ones with help fom my electrician mate.
I now have a intermittant tripping breaker - I now ask on a forum?
I change the breaker - I ask on said forum, what would be the best bet to try next?

In a nutshell that's it!!!!! Nothing complicated.
This is the situation - as you see... very simple stuff.

 

[Spark123]

I am a ex-project manager, now beauty salon owner with an old engineering ONC that covered electrical basics so I am "competant" to fit some halogens.

An ONC on its own does not mean you have sufficient experience and knowledge to prevent danger and injury.

You have up to and including 63A MCBs on circuits that have not been checked for disconnection times? - they are for the sunbeds... what are you getting at?

I meant what I said, the earth fault loop impedance needs to be determined to ensure that the circuit protective device can disconnect quickly enough to remove danger in the event of a fault. The measured earth fault loop impedances should be noted on test results for comparison with tabulated values and for reference at a later date. The same goes for all common circuits.

Have you thought of a way this i making my lights trip?

Could be a number of things, low insulation resistance etc etc.

Make of the CU is Proteus - from CEF.

Which model, BS no etc??

No the 2 50a don't leave much room but I have had advice from United Utilities, the sunquest engineers and installers and it was fitted by a qualified electrician.

So you have an EIC for this then? I thought you said before that you were the installer didn't you?

I am clearly not out of my depth asking questions on a forum to gather information.

Sorry, I disagree. Any work in commercial installations should only be done by persons who are competent to do the work, especially where the safety of the public is at risk.

Frankly... I think you are on a mission to look for holes in what I say rather than trying to help which is wearing a bit thin now.
Nobody is killing anybody - are you for real?

Do you not think that electricity can kill? Are you for real?

So I stick to what I said - if your not gonna help, then don't comment.
Stop with the get a qualified electritian comments as well, you clearly not reading and taking in what's been said as all of that info is perfectly clear.

So you are just going to carry on regardless of what a number of qualified persons have told you? I am reading and taking in pretty well what you have wrote, I just don't like the sound of it.

 

[ayen]

Im a owner of a electrical installation company with 6 electricians and 5 mates. You are a prat, you complete disregard for your customers safety due to your high and mighty approach to electrical work really pis;ses me off. Would you mess with the gas??? Dont come on this forum expecting people to help when you are braking every rule in the book.

 

[RF Lighting]

I have no paperwork - I just got the job done.

Illegal.

My mate is qualified and is an electrician so I'm pressuming as one he knows what he's doing

He isn't working to BS7671.

certainly United Utilities engineer or sunbed installers didn't mention or flag anything up.

Why would they? That is not their job.

I am a ex-project manager, now beauty salon owner with an old engineering ONC that covered electrical basics so I am "competant" to fit some halogens.

No you are not.

You have up to and including 63A MCBs on circuits that have not been checked for disconnection times? - they are for the sunbeds... what are you getting at?

What he is getting at is the fact that disconnection time is the single most important characteristic of an electrical installation.
I makes sure you building doesn't burn down, and your customers don't get killed.

Have you thought of a way this i making my lights trip?

No, as it isn't.

Make of the CU is Proteus - from CEF.

I don't need to add anything to that statement.

No the 2 50a don't leave much room but I have had advice from United Utilities

They fit what you ask for, not what they think you might need.

I am clearly not out of my depth asking questions on a forum to gather information.

You clearly are way out of your depth, otherwise you wouldn't be in this mess.

Frankly... I think you are on a mission to look for holes in what I say rather than trying to help which is wearing a bit thin now.

We have tried and tried to help you but you seem too stupid to take our advice.

Nobody is killing anybody - are you for real?

That statement about sums up your complete lack of understanding of just how dangerous electricity really is, especially when there are 63A supplies and naked bodies involved.

So I stick to what I said - if your not gonna help, then don't comment.

I will keep telling you until I am blue in the face.

Stop with the get a qualified electritian comments as well, you clearly not reading and taking in what's been said as all of that info is perfectly clear.

You have fu*ked up and still refuse to get someone who knows what they are doing to sort it for you.

I really don't care anymore, I just hope your stupidity and arrogance does not kill someone.

 

[ayen]

well put rf