Singles in conduit. Domestic

[flameport]

Would anyone agree that installing SI singles in domestic could lead to dangerous situations in future when a householder alters the wiring

No.
Even if it did, there are already huge numbers of properties wired with singles in conduit - two common examples being older council / local authority houses and blocks of flats.

If people can't deal with conduit, then they should leave well alone. Why compromise the design of an installation just so that incompetent fools won't be confused at some later date?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

We've had people here who think that there is a live and a neutral connected to COM & L1 of a light switch.

How can you possibly design something that wouldn't confuse people like that?

 

[Paul_C]

Indeed, a lot of DIY householders don't understand 2-way switching arrangements for lights, so should they not be installed? Many people don't understand the concept of a ring circuit, or how sockets may or should be added to it, so should rings not be installed either? The list could be almost endless, and, as BAS says, ultimately one could come to the conclusion that no electrical systems should be installed at all on the basis that there will somebody out there who can't even understand a two-way distribution panel feeding one socket and one light.

Anyone who comes along later has to accept responsibility for his own actions, taking into account his own knowledge and limitations when modifying an existing installation, and getting help if he doesn't understand something. It's not for a person installing a perfectly acceptable system now to try and make allowances for somebody else who doesn't understand what's going on messing about with it later.

 

[JohnW2]

Indeed, a lot of DIY householders don't understand 2-way switching arrangements for lights, so should they not be installed? Many people don't understand the concept of a ring circuit, or how sockets may or should be added to it, so should rings not be installed either? The list could be almost endless, and, as BAS says, ultimately one could come to the conclusion that no electrical systems should be installed at all on the basis that there will somebody out there who can't even understand a two-way distribution panel feeding one socket and one light.

Indeed. In fact, going back to the comment/question which started this sub-discussion, it might be that a situation unfamiliar to many householders/DIYers (e.g. singles in conduit) might actually, in some cases, have the effect of making the householder realise that they 'out of their depth/experience' and therefore that DIY is not appropriate.

Despite some of contrary examples we see here, I think that most people are fairly sensible and only contemplate any DIY work if they at least feel that they have enough knowledge/understanding/skill to be able to do the job fairly competently and safely.

I'm probably not a very representative example of the general population but, over the years and decades (and much of it in far less regulated/legislated eras), I have undertaken many very ambitious DIY tasks in a wide range of disciplines - building, plumbing, electrics, cars etc. etc. I've made significant structural changes in houses, totally re-wired houses, totally re-plumbed houses (including gas plumbing), changed/rebuilt car engines, car braking systems etc. etc. BUT, despite all that, there are still some tasks, or parts of tasks, that I would not dream of attempting myself. In particular, if I came across something I didn't understand (like the conduit situation, for many), I would get my understanding up to speed or employ an expert.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[bernardgreen]

Paul wrote

ultimately one could come to the conclusion that no electrical systems should be installed at all

There are many times I would support that conclusion. Especially after looking at the electrical installation in my cottage.

The electrician who told me that singles in conduit should be double insulated is being ignored. He only came onto the scene when he heard I was about to re-wire the cottage and I guess he was looking for some work.

 

[sparkwright]

Just to clarify, we are talking about circular metal conduit are we?

 

[bernardgreen]

Just to clarify, we are talking about circular metal conduit are we?

The plans are to use plastic conduit with solvent welded joints in the loft under a thatched roof.

 

[sparkwright]

Just to clarify, we are talking about circular metal conduit are we?

The plans are to use plastic conduit with solvent welded joints in the loft under a thatched roof.

Isn't pyro or metal conduit the norm in the lofts of thatched cottages?

 

[bernardgreen]

My insurance company say their underwriters will accept plastic conduit but I will ask for written confirmation to be sure.

 

[RF Lighting]

Given the choice I'd spec. steel tube or pyro for the loft of a thatched house regardless of what the insurance co says.

Also if you do use pyro, you need to be careful with it's rated current carrying capacity, due to the proximity of flammable material.

 

[bernardgreen]

As I understood it the need for conduit is to resist attack by rodents for which steel conduit and pyro are a 99% effective defence. I haven't yet heard of plastic conduit being chewed by rodents. If it is a problem that rodents chew plastic conduit then could copper pipe be used as conduit ? A kind of DIY non fire resistant "pyro" without the toxic insulation and without the need to terminate the ends in powder tight glands.

Also if you do use pyro, you need to be careful with it's rated current carrying capacity, due to the proximity of flammable material.

There will be individual circuits to each lamp so a maximum of 100 watts per circuit. The controller will fuse each circuit at 2 amps maximum.

Power sockets and their cables will be kept well away from the roof areas and walls adjacent to the thatch as I perceive a fault there as the highest fire risk.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

If it is a problem that rodents chew plastic conduit then could copper pipe be used as conduit ?

Why not use the metal tubing designed to be used for electrical conduit?

A kind of DIY non fire resistant "pyro" without the toxic insulation and without the need to terminate the ends in powder tight glands.

The insulating powder is not toxic.

Also if you do use pyro, you need to be careful with it's rated current carrying capacity, due to the proximity of flammable material.

What RF means is take note of the fact that some current ratings of bare pyro assume you can run it with a sheath temperature of 105°C.


Edited to correct spleling misteak.

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[Risteard]

I can't imagine a worse product, give it a few years and it will be falling apart due to thermal expansion and contraction due to massive summer/winter loft temperature differentials.

Use expansion couplings.

 

[sparkwright]

Using galv conduit or pyro would be 'foolproof' and there wouldn't be an issue later on when the insurance company come to their senses. Make sure every inch of the loft wiring is covered in metal.

Far better to use the right gear than copper water/gas pipe, that could cause another kind of disaster, as well as it looking unprofessional.