Siting Electric cooker control

[ban-all-sheds]

One can go on hypothesising about potential problems for as long as one likes - but that does sound very close to 'arguing for the sake of arguing'. In reality, there are few, if any, problems of the type you are imagining that could not be addressed in one way or another.

<A question>

<Some answers>

Anyway, why not first attempt to gather some facts which would enable you to make an assessment of whether/which problems might exist, rather than imagining a whole range of theoretical obstacles which may well not exist?

Why not try to keep up?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Depends on whether either method is carried out by using good workmanship or not.

I wonder how many electricians have, or have access to, the skills needed to fabricate a bracket which could go onto the side of a unit made with curved high gloss acrylic panels on the sides, large and strong enough to take an isolation switch, that would look good enough for the customer to admire the good workmanship?

For sure - If the non-structural side panels aren't suitable for mounting the switch, you find some way to attach it to the structural members.

By cutting away the side, or by putting the switch inside?

And if there really aren't any acceptable ways (electrically and aesthetically) to mount what is required to do the job on this hypothetical island unit, then perhaps it would not be good workmanship to try and use said island unit for this purpose in the first place?

So are surface mounted switches (metalclad boxes, or white plastic?) likely to be aesthetically acceptable?

Or a bracket which has been fabricated?

Are you saying that people may not install kitchen units which cannot have switches fixed to the exterior?

 

[JohnW2]

Anyway, why not first attempt to gather some facts which would enable you to make an assessment of whether/which problems might exist, rather than imagining a whole range of theoretical obstacles which may well not exist?

Why not try to keep up?

There's no problem of keeping up, but maybe a lack of clarity in my wording. I was merely trying to indicate, in a general sense, the futility of speculating about hypothetical problems which might exist with a hypothetical island unit - and that the sensible approach would normally be to attempt to gather facts about a particular real situation (that's the bit I forgot to include), and then make an appropraite assessment of any problems.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OK - I'll try some greater clarity too.

But just what type of island unit do you have in mind which can hold an electric hob on top but for which some simple method can't be found to mount a switch on the side?

Maybe you'd have been happier if I'd ignored that.

 

[JohnW2]

OK - I'll try some greater clarity too.

But just what type of island unit do you have in mind which can hold an electric hob on top but for which some simple method can't be found to mount a switch on the side?

Maybe you'd have been happier if I'd ignored that.

Ah - it seems that you have illustrated the problems of not quoting in a posting. I thought that what you are now implying was your response to that post of Paul's was, in fact, a response to my post which followed Paul's.

Omitting quotes (or some other reference to what one is responding to) can be OK when there are no intervening messages - but, when there are intervening ones, this is the sort of confusion which can arise.

Anyway, apologies on behalf of my crystal ball for not having realised to which post you were responding.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I would have thought that if a dwelling had a kitchen some 10 or 12 metres in length (oven isolator 4m behind person stood at island) then this would be a very bespoke design indeed which at its inception would surely have had specifications for the inclusion of switch placing.

 

[securespark]

There is absolutely no reason why each appliance can't have its own switch.

However, the regs do no longer quote a distance. Historically as mentioned it was 6ft then 2m.

One isolator was deemed enough if both appliances were within 2m of the switch.

But since the 16th, it has changed.

This I have copied from another thread:

I often quote the 2m rule, but as I think Ban pointed out in a previous thread, I think the 16th/17th does not actually mention distance. Yes, the OSG & BRG advise 2m, but it is not set in stone.

Just for amusement value, this is the history of the "2m" rule from the 14th onwards:

The 14th says,

A29.

Every stationary cooking appliance shall be controlled by a switch separate from the appliance and installed within 6 feet of the appliance. Where two SCA's are installed in one room, one switch may be used to control the two appliances provided that neither appliance is more than 6 feet from the switch.

The 15th says,

476-20.

Every fixed or stationary household cooking appliance shall be controlled by a switch separate from the appliance and placed within 2m of the appliance. Where two SCA's are installed in one room of household premises, one switch may be used to control both appliances provided that neither appliance is more than 2m from the switch.

The 16th says,

476-03-04

Every fixed or stationary appliance which may give rise to a hazard in normal use and is connected to the supply other than by means of a plug & socket complying with regulation 537-05-04 shall be provided with a means of interrupting the supply on load. The operation of the means of interrupting the supply on load shall be placed so as not to put the operator in danger. This means may be incorporated into the appliance or, if separate from the appliance, shall be in a readily accessible position. Where two or more appliances are installed in the same room, one interrupting means may be used to control all the appliances.

Anyone care to add what the 17th says? I have not got my copy to hand.

The above was quoted from this thread: //www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=989012#989012

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Ah - it seems that you have illustrated the problems of not quoting in a posting.

Yes - inadvertently.

I thought that what you are now implying was your response to that post of Paul's was, in fact, a response to my post which followed Paul's.

When I started typing it there had been no other posts following Paul's question...

And I didn't notice at the time - usually I do and I go back and edit mine to add the necessary quotes.

Oh dear.

 

[JohnW2]

Ah - it seems that you have illustrated the problems of not quoting in a posting.

Yes - inadvertently.

I thought that what you are now implying was your response to that post of Paul's was, in fact, a response to my post which followed Paul's.

When I started typing it there had been no other posts following Paul's question...And I didn't notice at the time - usually I do and I go back and edit mine to add the necessary quotes. Oh dear.

Thanks for explaining how it happened. Given that this is not a 'threaded' forum, it reminds us all of the need to take care to ensure it's clear what we are responding to.

Kind Regards, John.

 

[Paul_C]

I wonder how many electricians have, or have access to, the skills needed to fabricate a bracket which could go onto the side of a unit made with curved high gloss acrylic panels on the sides, large and strong enough to take an isolation switch, that would look good enough for the customer to admire the good workmanship?

Maybe very few. So perhaps the cabinet fitter would be in a better position to make suitable provision for the electrician when the whole job is being planned?

By cutting away the side, or by putting the switch inside?

By adopting whatever method suits the structure and is acceptable aesthetically. Without knowing the exact form of this hypothetical unit, who can be specific? Personally, I wouldn't be keen on putting the switch inside the cupboard.

So are surface mounted switches (metalclad boxes, or white plastic?) likely to be aesthetically acceptable?

Or a bracket which has been fabricated?

Who knows? Tastes vary widely and what might be acceptable aesthetically to one person might not be to another. I couldn't even say if I would find either of those switch options aesthetically pleasing or not without knowing exactly what the switch was being attached to.

Are you saying that people may not install kitchen units which cannot have switches fixed to the exterior?

Of course not, because you might not always need or want a switch on the exterior of a unit. I'm saying that as with any other project, all requirements should be taken into consideration when planning the job.

If you have an 18-inch square stovetop you want to install on this hypothetical island unit, you'd want to make sure that the top is large enough to hold it, wouldn't you? So if there's a need to mount an isolating switch on the unit (or a socket outlet, light switch, or anything else for that matter, electrical or otherwise), then you select a unit which satisfies both the technical requirements and any aesthetic concerns. If you really can't find a solution to mounting whatever is required on it which meets both sets of requirements, then maybe you should think about using some other type of unit - Just the same as if you were thinking about using a unit with a 17-inch square top and then realized that your 18-inch square stovetop is too big for it.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So if there's a need to mount an isolating switch on the unit...

If.

Who says there is?

 

[securespark]

Every fixed or stationary appliance...shall be provided with a means of interrupting the supply on load. The operation of the means of interrupting the supply on load shall be placed so as not to put the operator in danger. This means...shall be in a readily accessible position. Where two or more appliances are installed in the same room, one interrupting means may be used to control all the appliances.

1. There has to be a means of interrupting supply. For neatness, this will be a switch.

2. It has to be easily accessible.

3. There can be one switch providing the appliances are in the same room.

Other than that, the world's your lobster.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A big red EPO button that you press as you run out of the room...

Is that as in "armageddon outta here"?