six weeks, six visits, still no working boiler
- Thread starter Tomswan
- Start date
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That was an interesting read. I just wonder what the state of my in line filter is. I haven't checked myself, just left the chaps to do their thing, but I will have a look in the morning. If the in line filter isn't doing its job then it would make sense that the nozzle filter will pick up everything.
The common thread seems to be the drop in temperature causing particles to drop out of the mix and form deposits on filters.
The common thread seems to be the drop in temperature causing particles to drop out of the mix and form deposits on filters.
For what it’s worth, I’ve found those water detecting pastes fine to detect pooling water but made no difference at all when trying to detect a water emulsion.
Good luck with it Tom!
John
Good luck with it Tom!
John
For what it’s worth, I’ve found those water detecting pastes fine to detect pooling water but made no difference at all when trying to detect a water emulsion.
Good luck with it Tom!
John
Thanks. I'm not exactly confident but since the film on the nozzle filter has happened three times now I feel like there is a solution in the offing.
If there is a parallel with the red diesel issue of clogged filters then it does point to the particle drop out in cold weather.
perhaps once certain particles have formed they do not easily re-absorb once the temperature rises.
The good news would be that the bulk of oil in the tank appears unaffected. It will hopefully be the case that the crystallisation is just occurring as the oil feeds down the cold pipe. makes sense, I suppose. there is a lot of cold copper pipe relative to the volume of oil in the bore, whereas in the tank there is a large volume of oil, and it is protected by the bunding.
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I think that’s a good analysis - the additives are there to prevent this happening in the first place.
Early diesel cars had heated filters - either by water or electricity- to prevent exactly this.
These days, cars need a fuel cooler, as the pressures are so great!
John
Early diesel cars had heated filters - either by water or electricity- to prevent exactly this.
These days, cars need a fuel cooler, as the pressures are so great!
John
I think that’s a good analysis - the additives are there to prevent this happening in the first place.
Early diesel cars had heated filters - either by water or electricity- to prevent exactly this.
These days, cars need a fuel cooler, as the pressures are so great!
John
I did wonder whether it was possible to get a pre-heater in the boiler unit. I may have a look at that. This is actually an internal boiler that has been installed in an outbuilding (an unheated outbuilding) as opposed to a proper external boiler. Hopefully I can solve the problem - if this is the problem - by insulating exposed pipework.
The crystallisation causes havoc with fuel filters and the fuel injectors, which is spraying high Pressure fuel via almost microscopic nozzle.
These engines have 2x pre-filter and 2x main filters and it still causes issues.
Try the additive.
These engines have 2x pre-filter and 2x main filters and it still causes issues.
Try the additive.
I will, thanks. I found this highly informative article this morning.
http://www.heatbaseoilservices.co.uk/documents/Oilproblemsfinalcopy_000.pdf
It confirms the point you make: particles can pass through filters, including 10 micron filters, and cause blockages and breakdown at the combustion end.
I have a new tank (new last summer) so although that article warns about the capacity of additives to break down sludge in tanks (which then passes down the supply line) I ought to be ok on that score.
There seems to be two possibilities: either the fuel supplied by the company is contaminated or the fuel I had stored in drums had degraded and then contaminated the newly supplied fuel after I pumped it back into the new tank.
Still, it is not as if the fuel I stored in the drums was that old - it was only stored for a short time, and during the warmer months.
That article was quite useful, really, because it confirmed that the clear and bright informal eye test was no use in detecting fine particles in suspension that can pass through 50 and 10 micron filters before getting through to the point of combustion and causing problems.
The article even mentions the exact problem I am having, with accumulation of 'matter' on the nozzle filter on repeated occasions - with the unit (an AGA in this case) running for 24 hurst's before burner lockout - again and again, each time with contaminated nozzles.
If anyone is still reading this, I decided to check the in line filter just on the off chance. It is black, with oily sludge n the bottom, and looks like it has never been changed.
This is despite the fact that I paid good money to have the boiler serviced before Christmas. And despite the fact that I have had other heating engineers back to replace several failed components since.
Unless it can get to that state in a net total of three days running since the boiler was serviced, nobody has bothered to check it.
I'm not a mechanic or an engineer, I'm just some bloke whose boiler packed up weeks ago and who has been driven to try to find the solution by scouring the internet for answers because the people he called out couldn't diagnose the problem.
If it is not the filter then I am back to square one, but my assumption, or at least hope, is that once the filter can no longer filter particles out the fuel passing through it will pick up deposited gunge and carry it in train to the pump and through to the nozzle, where the nozzle filter, which is new, duly filters it out, but in such quantity that it quickly becomes clogged itself. Sound about right?
This is despite the fact that I paid good money to have the boiler serviced before Christmas. And despite the fact that I have had other heating engineers back to replace several failed components since.
Unless it can get to that state in a net total of three days running since the boiler was serviced, nobody has bothered to check it.
I'm not a mechanic or an engineer, I'm just some bloke whose boiler packed up weeks ago and who has been driven to try to find the solution by scouring the internet for answers because the people he called out couldn't diagnose the problem.
If it is not the filter then I am back to square one, but my assumption, or at least hope, is that once the filter can no longer filter particles out the fuel passing through it will pick up deposited gunge and carry it in train to the pump and through to the nozzle, where the nozzle filter, which is new, duly filters it out, but in such quantity that it quickly becomes clogged itself. Sound about right?
As a mechanic, I’d be more tempted to suspect that the blocked filter will drastically reduce or stop the fuel supply to the boiler. Nothing should get past the filter.
Ok, well that's interesting, and a bit disappointing. Odd though because an oil filter in a car can get seriously gunged up without impeding the flow of oil (as far as I know). I realise we are talking engine oil as opposed to fuel oil, but the paper filter is essentially the same sort of thing, even if with finer filtration.
at any rate, the heating oil was making it to the pump with sufficient flow to run for 24 hours or so each time.
I guess it is either that or the crystallising process in the oil, so it should be easy to eliminate the wrong alternative explanation. Thanks.
An engine has a bypass system in case of a blocked oil filter as it’s for lubrication. Even unfiltered oil will provide better protection than no oil. There’s no bypass on air or fuel filters though - if they block up, nothing gets past and power drops or stops!
So not blocked totally I guess, just very dirty. The paper element is blackened and there is oily black sludge in the bottom of it around the hole where the bolt passes through to the upper housing.
Fuel is a different matter to oil on an engine. I've been in and around drainage for most of my working life, and used a lot of the machinery involved in it's installation and cleaning. The vast majority of which run on diesel. Oil filter are designed to remove contaminants created by the engine, (you always put clean fresh oil in), and the same oil is circulated until such time as its changed and replaced with fresh.
Fuel is a completely different matter, it is consumed, in varying quantities, depending on size of the engine. Diesel supply systems on most engines have a water separator and several forms of filtration to remove the tiniest particles of muck. (It takes very little to wreck an injector pump.) When these filters block up, then fuel starvation occurs and usual symptom is a loss of power.
Fuel is a completely different matter, it is consumed, in varying quantities, depending on size of the engine. Diesel supply systems on most engines have a water separator and several forms of filtration to remove the tiniest particles of muck. (It takes very little to wreck an injector pump.) When these filters block up, then fuel starvation occurs and usual symptom is a loss of power.
It's an interesting field of study, and if I wasn't so angry I could probably enjoy getting into it. I don't mind a problem exceeding a qualified person's experience or capacity to solve, but I do mind when an inline fuel oil filter that is supposed to be changed every year is never even looked at let alone replaced. I've even gone out to get a new filter for it, told the boiler mechanic, so far no reply, and snow and ice on the way again.
it's a good job I've got no power or the few mechanics we do have would be shipped off to the nearest gulag to see how they like living in sub zero temperatures for weeks on end. FFS.
Anyway, rant over. It seems, after reading those articles, that particle drop out is an industry wide problem, so I am hardly alone. As it happens the cloudy kerosene has gone back to its clear state after a couple of days stored at room temperature. So almost certainly wax, not bio contamination. I believe it never restores completely to its original state, but worst case scenario is probably wait for warmer weather, draw some of the oil off, then burn what's left to get rid of the batch, and then fuel up again for winter.
I might install a tiger loop, since from what I have read they benefit from the oil heating capacity of the pump through which the oil circulates on a loop.
And by install I mean install myself.
I wish I was a younger man. I would build an empire of boiler mechanics that would make me richer than Jeff Bezos.
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