Size of Radiators or sizing of radiators for a room

[Balenza]

Andy1946 wrote

I plan always to install about 4 times larger than the calculations suggest.

Then he wrote

The physical difference in size is nothing like you (and some others) seem to feel it might be, one does not need to lose a whole wall......!!!! Thats just simply wrong!!!

OK if I had a room requiring 1000W and the rad has been sized to comply with EN-442 and I multiply it by 4.
Let me see.
Lets take a Myson DP (convector). Its 540mm long by 530mm tall. Output =1078W.
Now lets take a Myson DP(convector) x 4. Its 1556mm long by 690mm tall . Output = 3815W.

In one word its huge.
And probably about three times the cost.
I installed a complete new build project a while back with UF heating and the rads priced for the system were about 30 percent cheaper.
But the client wanted UF heating.

UF heating gives everything your great clunking rads (probably sitting full of sludge. LOL ) give and then some.
Sizing rads using your method would just about balance the pricing between the two systems.

 

[Andy1946]

Let me guess, you live in the USA? Right.

Then you may not have access to the types of radiators we have here in Europe (particularly Germany) I feel, double and triple rads are easy to get hold of, I assume you know what I am talking about.....

As I correctly stated before, they do not need to be as huge as you US Citizens feel they must be!!!!! Perhaps in the USA the types we often use are simply not available or extremely pricey.....

Would you like me to send you some links with pretty color pictures of the rads I have in mind? Its no problem (assuming that such pictures exist on the web, I have never checked, but of course I could take a picture of my own rads if not. I always feel that a picture is worth a 1000 words, don't you agree?)

Just let me know. Byeeeee

 

[ChrisR]

FWIW:
I like oversized rads too!
Not so many dust/convection marks
Not so hot to touch
Covers unforseen needs and errors in calculating
..(A windy North corner can lose more heat than expected...)
..(One bed room in my own house turned into an office, and needed a bigger rad, so I put in a double, and it's fine.)
Condensing boilers obviously suit them.

And if you want a trv to work, to determine the room's temp, you HAVE to have an oversized rad. Otherwise turning it up won't do any good.

I also like the idea of proper control for each room's temp from an intelligent sensor, (so each room becomes a zone, in effect) but most would find the parts expensive.

All too many installations have undersized rads, because the "engineer" didn't make all the allowances he should have done.

WHere I would take issue is with 400% oversizing. I somehow doubt they really are that much bigger than full calcs would say. Many rooms need a double convector the full length of the window. You'd have to be some kind of nutter to fit an extra 3 of those. Maybe Andy falls into that category?

50% fine, 80% maybe. 400%, barking!

 

[Balenza]

Andy1946 wrote

Let me guess, you live in the USA? Right.

Wrong.

Then you may not have access to the types of radiators we have here in Europe (particularly Germany)

Thats probably true.

I feel, double and triple rads are easy to get hold of,

You can quadruple them if you like . Im still not interested.

I assume you know what I am talking about.....

Yep.

As I correctly stated before, they do not need to be as huge as you US Citizens feel they must be!!!!! Perhaps in the USA the types we often use are simply not available or extremely pricey.....

So how much does a 4 kw triple panel rad cost in Germany then ?.

Would you like me to send you some links with pretty color pictures of the rads I have in mind? Its no problem (assuming that such pictures exist on the web, I have never checked, but of course I could take a picture of my own rads if not.

Feel free. In the mean time have a look at this.........

This is heated via a state of the art ground source heat pump system. All UF heating. None of your great oversized , sludged up, clunking rads in sight.

Its in Ireland. It has above standard insulation.
The occupants have just moved in. The system was commissioned about two months ago.
So far the upper level UF has not been turned on due to the heat migrating upwards from the lower level.
The system has been running during the first few months at night only using a cheap rate tarriff and the thermal mass of the UF slab has been retaining the heat through out the day with no further energising of the system during peak rate hours.
That of course may have changed as the property is now occupied.
I will be informed in the next few weeks of any changes and running costs. So far its looking good.

I always feel that a picture is worth a 1000 words, don't you agree?)
Just let me know. Byeeeee

I totally agree. Byeeeee.

 

[billy bob]

How about some pictures of the installation, not just the house

 

[Balenza]

Ground floor manifold distribution...............

Ground loop distribution junction + undergrowth.

Brains of the heat pump..............

Inside the heat pump casing.

First floor slab detail laid on top of wooden joisted flooring...........

 

[Andy1946]

Hi,

fantastic purpose built house with top insulation and top heating....

But, most of us would have to first knock down our houses or at least move and/or re-build....it is not an option that many people will have....

It would appear to be underfloor heating, which I personally dislike intensely and to which some people attribute excessive colds and allergies to, rightly or wrongly I cannot say as I have no direct personal experience in this area, I simply do not like it, but some good friends nearby after 25 years of underfloor heating have had rads put in......

But millions do like and it does come with certain bragging rights I am told.... More new homes are built with it than without today....

In a bathroom is about the one and only place that I would like to have it....

The theory as to why some react in a negative way to UF heating being that for a million years of so, humans (once they understood fire) could warm themselves at the front OR the back, but with one fire not both at the same time!! And the feet were often cold all the time.....now with underfloor heating, having the feet warmer than the head sort of puts the body in a "tail spin"......how true this is or not I personally cannot say.... each to his own....

My house in the UK was built around 1430 and my house in Germany (also a wooden framed farmhouse) was built around 1908. Neither of them, even if I wanted underfloor heating, which I really do not, lend themselves to it in the first place, nor would I be allowed I suspect, to make such drastic changes anyway.....

ChrisR seems to have success with his over sized rads and as he points out exceedingly well, that if something "cold" was overseen, you do not get into trouble quite so badly as you would have done with the "standard" sizes....

By the way, the original "correct" sized rads for my front room when we bought the house, were two small units that were not even the width of the windows!!! With the boiler at max my wife still froze though the temp could get to 21°C with everything at full bore........they did not even look correct to my mind and that is what put me on my path of "bigger is better"....the current ones (doubles)exceed the window width by a good 15 cm each side and each are about twice as wide as the originals...!!! Hence the x4!!

What has really amazed me is the number of imagined problems that some people have "coughed up", without having ever tried the theory out in any way at all themselves.....and how banal and incorrect and downright wrong some of the forced arguments are too.....now that did really surprise me quite a lot!!

There's "nowt so queer as Folk" to quote an old North Country saying!!!

 

[kirkgas]

after reading all that you have just got to say that Basil Fawlty was right all along.

 

[Andy1946]

Basil was right in all unforgettable 13 episodes.....

I thought there was more, but a colleague says no, only 13, sad really!!