Sleeve Gas pipe - Updated Regs

[SirLancelot]

Hi All,

A) Where can I find the most recent / updated regs, regarding sleeving gas pipework that goes through walls - for the UK (England).

Looking for the most up-to-date/current regs, not superseded ones.

This is an ordinary semi-detached property made in the 1930's.

The gaspipe is 22mm. Going through a solid wall (no cavity).

Would like to know:

B) what diameter the sleeving should be

&

C) what material it should be made from. (This one is likely to stir some debate).

Also

D) Where it should be sealed

&

E) what sealents are recommended.

(Yes - A gas safe engineer will be doing the work, but as it's my property thats being modified, I'd like to know whats being done. I.e - Trust but Verify).

My thanks to anyone willing to explore this topic, discuss it and maybe learn new things along the way.

SL.

 

[HERTS P&D]

Don't worry your Gas Engineer will know all these answers.

Andy

 

[SirLancelot]

Andy, please read my original post again. You may have missed some of the qualifiers.

I continue to ask the community for discussion on the points A - E.

I came across this bulletin which is published in Ireland:

Sleeving Discussion - alternative approaches

It discusses the different materials suitable for sleeving. But leans on a recommended material for the sleeve. I have often seen plastic pipe being used here in London. I am curious as to why its not the go to recommendation in the bulletin. Looks like theres a discussion to be had.

It also includes a table detailing sizing, length and a discussion of joint types within the sleeve.

It qualifies that a fire retardant mastic sealant needs to be used too. But I imagine there are differences in the quality of different brands. I'd rather have a high quality product from a reputable brand that will last, over whatever is in the back of the van at the time. I'm willing to pay the difference.

So i'd like to discuss/explore this topic with the community here. Then i'll be able to have a worthwhile conversation with the gas engineer, before I agree to the works/material selections.

My thanks to any willing to contribute in exploring this topic.

 

[HERTS P&D]

I did read your post, so did many others and as I said, your Gas engineer will know all the answers.

If he/she doesn't, then look elsewhere.

Andy

 

[Nige F]

If you go with B.G their vans are only filled with pukka compounds and pipe

 

[CBW]

What are you going to achieve by knowing the answers, other than knowing the answers and you’ll be doing the work? Your gas safe registered engineer should know the answers and can make an informed decision once a site inspection has been carried out. Most are in the gas safety installation and use regulations, some might be in British Standards and or building regulations.

 

[SirLancelot]

Okay,

You've asked, now here are my answers:

A) SLEEVE: Multiple materials are acceptable for the sleeve. Multiple
Material choices have been suggested.

There'll be Pro's and Con's to each of the acceptable choices. So I'd like to be able to have a technical discussion on material selection.

That's why i'm asking the community here - what they now consider best practice. (Just as an example that my approach is rational - e.g - copper sleeve and cement don't always go well together - sometimes it eats away at the copper sleeve).

If I'm paying for the materials, and am presented with multiple options, I want to make an informed choice.

Straightforward.

Solid wall - no cavity, sleeve materials recommended:

"copper,
steel,
polyethylene (PE) or
polyvinyl chloride (PVC)"

Now - RGI (Yes not the standards used where I live):

RGI - Ireland - Sleeving Best Practice

Solidly recommends GRP Sleeving. Yet GRP is not mentioned here (01/07/23):

Pipe Sleeving - Institute of Gas Engineers UK

My follow up question would be - why?

Furthermore, in both bulletins managing fire-risk is clearly relevant. In that case - i'd like to understand how any plastic sleeving can be a recommended choice?

Worth discussing at least?

B) SEALANT: Two of the gas engineers (remember, I asked 3) said "silicone" the other said 'caulk'.

It was the third one that said specifically messaged me that it will be a:

"Non-setting gas impervious, intumescent sealant".

So why did the other two qualified gas engineers not mention this?

Only when probed, did i get the "...oh yeah, right. It needs to be fire and gas proof..".

Secondly, just as with any sealant product, there are good quality products and bad quality products. Simple.

Again - I (me) am paying for the material for work to be done on my own house.

So to me - it makes sense to ask, what product / brand seems to last through multiple seasons, over the long term. Whats considered a good quality option?

C) ANNULAR SPACE - each gas engineer did not know if there is a required sleeve diameter for 22mm gaspipe. As you can see, the Irish Bulletin has a table specifying the diameters of the sleeve vs the gaspipework. It is clear and specific.

All three (and I mean all three) engineers could not confirm the recommended specific sleeve diameters in England. They said (summarised) '...as long as it protects the pipe and gives some clearance'.

However : this table from the Irish bulletin DOES specifically give recommended diameters:

Again, these standards are not written for where I live, but for ireland.

And because three separate gas engineers could not help me with this aspect either - I felt It's fair to ask for assistance here, from the community.

------

Now, you have repeatedly said ask your gas engineer.

I have asked three.

Multiple sleeve materials were suggested by each.

I have to choose one. So i've asked the community here, to contribute to the discussion.

Next, There are multiple sealant products available. No harm in asking for recommendations.

Thirdly, they could not give me the regs regarding relative sleeve diameter, (if such are specified in England).

So finally. The work is going to a gas engineer. They are going to be paid.

Clearly - I am just doing due diligence. They are each giving me different answers.

I'd simply like the work done right, to a very high standard - first time.

Now, please, can we discuss some of the points raised, so we as a community can all gain from the exploration of this subject.

 

[CBW]

The sleeve doesn’t matter too much as long as it doesn’t cause any electrolytic corrosion and can is suitable of being able to carry gas. Annual space should be just one size higher. The sealant should be a non setting type, so your 3rd engineer is correct.

 

[James1991]

My old man has lived in the same house for 60 years. 45 years ago we got a gas meter fitted on the outside of our house. We got a gas cooker and a Baxi back boiler fitted. The local plumber used a bit of white plastic basin waste pipe from the back of his van to sleeve the 22mm copper pipe and a bit of putty to seal around the pipe. It’s still as it was after all these years albeit the putty is a little bit black looking now.

I wouldn’t worry about it, your gas safe installer would need to be a right numpty if they can’t get it right…. And I’m sure you have done your research on them as well as the ins and outs of sleeving a 300 mm length of copper pipe.

 

[SirLancelot]

I'm curious as too why a plastic sleeve is permissible, when fire resistance is a concern?

 

[Elkato531]

The sleeve is to protect the pipe from mechanical and chemical damage from the wall fabric and to prevent gas entering the cavity or other void in the event of a leak. It is not to protect the pipe from fire and/or heat. Remember that the pipe will be subject to the same or greater heat either side of the sleeve.
If your house is burning and the pipe sleeves are melting, you really have bigger things to worry about.
You do seem to be overthinking this.

 

[GuessMan]

SirLancelot Please don’t move down south, we’ve enough idiots down here already.

 

[SirLancelot]

SirLancelot Please don’t move down south, we’ve enough idiots down here already.

Guess***,

I'm calling you out on your choice of words, and your intent behind your post above.

You've deliberately crafted that message, then posted it.

A forum - is designed for people to connect and discuss things, pose questions and explore topics so-as-to learn something.

I know why i'm here.

Why are you here?

I suspect my post, detailing my thought process, intimidated you.

 

[Nige F]

Why not contact ree of this forum . He likes a debate. Maybe other posters take on the forum rules about Gas Questions?

 

[GuessMan]

I do know the relevant regulations and standards covering this as my career path requires it.

BS 6891 Regulations 8.7 sets out the requirements.

Why you’d need this is because you strike me as a google professor and one of the beloved watchers. Do you question your drivers knowledge of the highway code regulations (I mean the number not the action) covering the right of way at a roundabout? I bet you don’t; just sit back or get off the bus.