Smart meter problem

[SUNRAY]

Exactly- that's how I've always understood that such things work. Sunray was, I suppose, fairly close in what he suggested, but he did not make the crucial point that there were two coils, powered in different ways.

With what you and I are talking about, it's essentially the phase difference between the currents in the two coils which achieves the desired result(even in the one 'powered by voltage', it is the resultant current through the coil that matters).

Kind Regards, John

Hopefully the sketch goes some way towards that.

 

[JohnW2]

Hopefully the sketch goes some way towards that.

Yep.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Yorkshire_lad]

I am with Octopus and have a smets2 meter that has never communicated with the “in home display” although it does communicate with Octopus.

Its my own fault as I used to work for edf and finished my time with them working on the smart meter project. I should have known better but you live and learn.

Your only course of action is to either ask to speak to the senior manager who has responsibility for delivering the solution for Octopus or complain to Ofgem, in writing, that Octopus are not keeping you informed of progress.

It may not help but Ofgem should hopefully give you chapter and verse on the cause and likelihood of a solution/timescale or at least give you a name to contact.

Thanks for your comments.

I’ve escalated this with Octopus as far as I can. Ended up emailing the CEO directly. They do appear to be trying to help but all aspects of my problem seem to originate with Arqiva/DCC. They are both government appointed and will not communicate in any way with the public and, from what I can make out, are pretty crap at communicating with the electricity companies. They don’t publish any useful data like WAN coverage maps or the like and, from what I can see are pretty much unaccountable and aren’t that bothered.

I did consider complaining to Ofgem but ultimately they can only make a decision on whether Octopus are at fault or not and I don’t believe they are. Ofgem can’t hold Arqiva/DCC to account.

I have tried writing to my MP - not holding out much hope but maybe make some noise there. The only other options I can think of are writing to Watchdog and Which to see if either of those will raise the issue.

 

[Diver Fred]

I say you are lucky - I'm being 'blackmailed' into having a smart meter. Managed to hold out for several months. Keep on telling EDF it won't work where my meter is in the house - last bloke who came to fit the meter agreed with me (but he didn't have the correct duel rate meter) so it will be fun when they eventually get round to changing it.

Just don't see the point in them - I know how to read a meter and who to give the readings to. Also know how to use less energy - switch appliances off!

 

[winston1]

Put your foot down and don’t have one then. They are not compulsory.

 

[Yorkshire_lad]

I say you are lucky - I'm being 'blackmailed' into having a smart meter. Managed to hold out for several months. Keep on telling EDF it won't work where my meter is in the house - last bloke who came to fit the meter agreed with me (but he didn't have the correct duel rate meter) so it will be fun when they eventually get round to changing it.

Just don't see the point in them - I know how to read a meter and who to give the readings to. Also know how to use less energy - switch appliances off!

I wouldn’t be fussed but without one I can’t get access to any “smart” tariffs (cheap rate overnight electricity) or get paid for the electricity I’m exporting back to the grid. It has quite a big financial impact to me so I’m going to keep plugging away…

 

[JohnW2]

Put your foot down and don’t have one then. They are not compulsory.

As I always say, I'm not sure where this idea about 'choice' comes from.

I've no idea where it is but I'm pretty sure that the contract I have with my supplier (which I have 'implicitly accepted', even though I've never physically signed it), just as with previous ones, involves my agreeing that the supplier can install any equipment which takes their fancy in my property which relates to their provision of an electricity supply - with no suggestion that I have any say in what equipment they choose to install. Do you perhaps have a contract which says something different from that?

 

[JohnW2]

I wouldn’t be fussed but without one I can’t get access to any “smart” tariffs (cheap rate overnight electricity) or get paid for the electricity I’m exporting back to the grid.

As I've said, you don't (electrically speaking) need a smart meter for either of those things. Some suppliers may (as a form of 'blackmail') only offer certain tariffs to people with smart meters (so, as below, you might need to shop around suppliers) but there are plenty of people (like me) who have dual-rate tariffs with a 'dumb' meter (and, indeed, did when the meters were all electro-mechanical) and I'm pretty sure that there are also people who have export metered by a 'dumb' meter'.

It sounds as if your problem is specifically with your supplier and, although there is currently no financial benefit to be had by 'switching', it sounds as if you would do well to consider switching to a more sensible/helpful supplier.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Swwils]

As I've said, you don't (electrically speaking) need a smart meter for either of those things. Some suppliers may (as a form of 'blackmail') only offer certain tariffs to people with smart meters (so, as below, you might need to shop around suppliers) but there are plenty of people (like me) who have dual-rate tariffs with a 'dumb' meter (and, indeed, did when the meters were all electro-mechanical) and I'm pretty sure that there are also people who have export metered by a 'dumb' meter'.

It sounds as if your problem is specifically with your supplier and, although there is currently no financial benefit to be had by 'switching', it sounds as if you would do well to consider switching to a more sensible/helpful supplier.

Kind Regards, John

It sounds like OP wants to make use of octopus agile outgoing though and a new supplier will have the same issues with the WAN regardless.

Even without using the agile tarrifs, noone will register a new export MPAN without a smets2 in place now and not all older smets 1 meters will work with all providers SEG licence.

 

[winston1]

As I always say, I'm not sure where this idea about 'choice' comes from.

I've no idea where it is but I'm pretty sure that the contract I have with my supplier (which I have 'implicitly accepted', even though I've never physically signed it), just as with previous ones, involves my agreeing that the supplier can install any equipment which takes their fancy in my property which relates to their provision of an electricity supply - with no suggestion that I have any say in what equipment they choose to install. Do you perhaps have a contract which says something different from that?

I’m with EON. They wrote to me saying the tariff I’m on requires me to have a smart meter and they were coming to fit one on such a date. I wrote back saying I had never signed such an agreement and I didn’t want one. They replied that I didn’t have to have one after all.

 

[JohnW2]

I’m with EON. They wrote to me saying the tariff I’m on requires me to have a smart meter and they were coming to fit one on such a date. I wrote back saying I had never signed such an agreement and I didn’t want one. They replied that I didn’t have to have one after all.

Fair enough - that's obviously up to them.

However, "never signed such an agreement" is irrelevant. It's decades since I last signed an electricity supply contract/agreement (if ever), but the relevant T&Cs invariably say that, by using their electricity, one is deemed to have accepted the terms of the Agreement - and that is seemingly acceptable in law.

 

[Jackrae]

Maybe this question has already been asked; if so please bear with me

This is probably very much hypothetical (at this time) but it's bound to crop up for many consumers in the not-too-distant future.

Say I'm with company X and they have advised that for various technical reasons (not of my doing) they cannot supply me with a functional smart meter or that they cannot communicate with the smart meter they provide.

If company X then introduces variable rate tariffs to encourage users to use their loads during off-peak times, what's my legal and monetary standing.

Because of their technical failings, will I be charged at a) peak rate b) off-peak rate or c) a nominal mean rate

 

[JohnW2]

.... Say I'm with company X and they have advised that for various technical reasons (not of my doing) they cannot supply me with a functional smart meter or that they cannot communicate with the smart meter they provide. .... If company X then introduces variable rate tariffs to encourage users to use their loads during off-peak times, what's my legal and monetary standing. ... Because of their technical failings, will I be charged at a) peak rate b) off-peak rate or c) a nominal mean rate

I would have thought that it would be an entirely commercial decision as to what tariffs a supplier will offer, with whatever conditions - to the best of my knowledge, the only regulation is the 'capping' of standard variable-rate tariffs.

As I've said, there is no electrical reason why one needs a 'smart' meter in order to have a dual-rate tariff - I have (and always have had) E7, with a 'dumb' meter. However, as above, if a particular company decides to only offer certain tariffs to people with ("who can have") a smart meter, I imagine they can -just as I think they could, if they so wished, only offer certain tariffs to houses with blue front doors, or to houses which had a Yorshire Terrier

It was different in the distant days when one had no choice as to who one bought electricity from - but I think one price we pay for having choice, is that individual private companies can apply any 'conditions' they wish.

If I had a green car and found a place which charged double for servicing green cars, I would look elsewhere

However, I'm certainly no lawyer, so I may be wrong!

Kind Regards, John

 

[EFLImpudence]

Say I'm with company X and they have advised that for various technical reasons (not of my doing) they cannot supply me with a functional smart meter or that they cannot communicate with the smart meter they provide.

Obviously not much point fitting one then.

If company X then introduces variable rate tariffs to encourage users to use their loads during off-peak times, what's my legal and monetary standing.

They have (sort of) been doing that for 'ever'; nothing to do with smart meters.

Smart meters will enable more to be charged at dinner time to dissuade you from using electricity at such times.

Because of their technical failings, will I be charged at a) peak rate b) off-peak rate or c) a nominal mean rate

Presumably 'a', which, if you had 'b' would be even more than 'a'.

Remember, the smart meter roll-out is a government directive to the electricity suppliers for which you, and everyone else, are being charged around £400 (no doubt it will end up being more) in surcharges on your bills, whether you have one or not - so that you can be charged more at dinner time to dissuade you from using electricity at such times and no doubt charged a lot more when you charge your electric car.

 

[plugwash]

As I've said, there is no electrical reason why one needs a 'smart' meter in order to have a dual-rate tariff

An electricity "supplier" notionally buys electricity on the wholesale market and sells it to you. IIRC the wholesale market works on a half-hourly basis.

Since the distribution network does not segregate electricity flows from different "supplier"s, the meter in your house must serve not only the relationship between you and your "supplier", but also the relationship between your "supplier" and the wholesale electricity market.

Since many customer's don't have smart meters there must be a fudge in place, to charge electricity suppliers for an assumed consumption profile of their dumb-meter customers. I would assume that with legacy dual-rate tarrifs there are two assumed consumption profiles, one for "day" units and one for "night" units.

But i could also see there being extreme reluctance to add new fudges to the system to support new tarriffs.