Smart thermostats everywhere!

[ajsdoc]

I'm noting loads of posts about adding smart thermostats to existing systems.

They are not cheap. I see various marketing bits saying they pay for themselves in a year or so, but I feel sceptical.

My questions to the professionals on here is "are they worth it", "do you have one yourselves" and if so "which one do you prefer"?

I like the reliability of my wired, old fashioned turn a dial thermostat. But could be persuaded if money savings seem convincing...

 

[dilalio]

It all depends...
An RF roomstat can be a worthy upgrade as it allows you to simply reposition it to a more useful location than the old-wired-in-the-hallway unit. Which can make it more practical for modern living.
I have a One controller, that came with my ATAG boiler and I do enjoy checking the diagnostics and turning the heating on now and then without having to get up off my arse when it's a bit chilly when I wake early - my phone is by my bed

 

[ianmcd]

completely depends on your personal circumstances and claims that they will save you money are false it all depends on how you operate them , personnally I love mine as I am never home at the same time every night so I can turn my heating on from my mobile when on the way home as opposed to setting a timer

 

[HERTS P&D]

Also when the wife gets on your nerves and you go out, just turn the heating down from the pub.

Andy

 

[Dan Robinson]

I see various marketing bits saying they pay for themselves in a year or so

Where?

 

[motorbiking]

Also when the wife gets on your nerves and you go out, just turn the heating down from the pub.

Andy

Now that's a good reason to buy one.

I'm thinking I could link it to a ITTT app - IF Wife put out last night = true, then heating on else heating off. IF wife put out last night = false and wife put out previous nite = false then heating and hot water off.

 

[slippyr4]

I don't really rate my nest stat. I've ended up turning off half the "clever" features because they don't work properly.

And still it irritates - sometimes the house will feel a bit hot, and looking at the stat the set temp will be 19, the actual temp 20.5 and it's still firing the heating. That's "smart".

 

[CChris]

If you are going to invest a fair chunk of money into "smart" heating, then my recommendation would be the Evohome system. Admittedly this is somewhat more expensive than the simple replacement "smart" thermostats, but in my opinion a lot more flexible and a lot more likely to pay for itself over time.

A recent long term review of the Evohome System by a writer for PC Pro magazine hit the nail on the head for me, a single thermostat is like having a single light switch for your home (or downstairs/upstairs). While TRV's can mitigate this to some extent, do you really go round each evening adjusting the TRV's to your desired heating level in particular rooms at particular times? If you are not using the dining room in an evening, why have it heated at all? In larger homes, how is a thermostat in the hall going to know when your lounge is warm enough?

To me, for a system to be considered "smart", then you need to be able to direct heat to the rooms where you want it, and not bother heating rooms that you dont use on particular days or nights.

Review of Evohome on Vesternet here:
http://www.vesternet.com/blog/2016/10/honeywell-evohome-long-term-review/

 

[Twenty Four]

I have my heating to switch on and off on a mobile via my alarm outputs which is plenty enough automation for me and leaves me in control of my heating and not some app that is open to hackers.

I do like the technology and enjoy reading about it but won't consider it for security reasons not to mention internet downtimes, masses of faffing about with reconnects, adjustments, head scratching etc. You only have to read the Automated Home forum, (don't you CChris), to see the huge amount of problems Evohome throws up regularly.

I can't even justify the separate zones theory when I'm at home most of the time and use most of he house. The rooms I don't use I turn down the TRVs. One temperature set on the centrally sited thermostat with a properly balanced system works as intended for me with every room getting to the temperature asked of it in no time.

 

[CChris]

Ive had Evohome for quite some time now and for us it works very well. The only real issue it has thrown up for myself is range, our property is fairly large, but its the fact it is spread out (wide but shallow) with many solid walls. As the boilers are at one end then positioning the controller where it could communicate with the Boiler and the far end rooms is/was a pain. Im now looking at a third controller to remove a couple of the issues of some rooms disconnecting.

I believe that a lot of "problems" thrown up by Evohome are cases where installation instructions haven't been followed correctly, or Evohome highlighting underlying plumbing issues that weren't overly apparent with the system before (unbalanced towel radiators etc).

In my year or more with Evohome I have only needed to "faff" with the settings on a couple of occasions after I got the controllers positioned right (and yes that was a massive faff, requiring assistance from the automated home forum and others). Once to try altering a zone to a multi room zone, and once to try the optimised start/stop functions. Thats on a system with 23 zones including an underfloor heating controller and two zones.

Admitted, its certainly one of the more technical installs, requiring more setting up than some of the other systems, and depending on the number of zones/radiators it can be vastly more expensive, however in terms of smart heating I think it takes some beating. On larger homes with many rooms and zones I believe it is much more efficient than having a single temperature measurement and going round altering TRV's. The fact that its efficiency grows the larger the home, yet Honeywell dont make a range extender really does boggle the mind though.

 

[Twenty Four]

CChris, your last post confirms my reticence completely. I have a large home too and wouldn't be remotely interested in what you and others have had to do and continue to do.

The lack of a range extender is a sign of something not quite thought out that well. As for the efficiency claim I'd disagree totally. TRVs of mine were adjusted once and have remained that way, as has the temperature setting for the house in general. All I do is switch the system on and switch it off. I spend no more time on it reading logs, working out why one radiator hasn't operated at the time it should have or why my heating hasn't come on or gone off etc.

If you take the initial outlay Plus the faff time involved and in your case more outlay than usual, you might see some kind of a return in 2040.

 

[slippyr4]

Different strokes for different folks.

I think it's hard to deny that smart heating is the future- the cost of energy only goes up in the long term. Fundamentally, a system that controls and modulates temperature on a much more granular level than whole house has to be a better heating system.

Evohome (even though not a new system) is in many ways bleeding edge; in the future there will be systems with much better reliability.

Right now though, even if evohome were completely reliable, it's still a bit too complex for a lot of people. Most people just don't know or care how their heating works (until it breaks). These are the people that turn their stat up to 25 so it heats up quicker (!) and then open a window because the house is too hot.

The promise of nest, to auto learn a schedule based on your manual temperature tweaks (which I don't think in its current guise works very well) is a good idea to help the above type of people with usability for a multi zone smart system.

 

[vulcancontinental]

A smart stat is something that can do someting others can't I believe. Most look sexy but really are room stats with long invisible connections that have one way communication between app and room/time control. If you have a boiler that accepts Open Therm controls and choose wisely the communication between app and boiler (as well as room stat) is two way. That means boiler operating condition, any alarms, alarm history, system pressure, boiler lockout reset, service reminders will be available as long as you have a data connection on your phone so it's telling you there's a possible problem before you notice things are not as warm as you want them to be. If you do not have an Open Therm boiler at the moment use one thay can be connected ON/OFF at present then switched to OT when the boiler is replaced. prices start around 125, trv zones or motorised valve zones can be added later. They can save money by modulating the boiler flow if OT but buy them for the facility not appearance.

 

[gmgas]

Don't see the point of having all the tech how does it save any money if u have rooms you don't use often with the ability to turn of and on remotely
If you dot use the room turn trv off or down low to say shout 10 degrees
You don't need to be smart
a decent timer room stat and trv's will cost less and save money insulate you home
For big houses zone different parts properly this can done over time if you are serous about having so much control
Alot cheaper and reliable
Keeping a house warm is easier than letting it cool right down and heating it up from cold daily this with good insulation and well positioned controls is better than multiple zones and unreliable tech

 

[m0t]

I have a nest and its total rubbish.

I like being able to control the heating when I am out but the device frequently loses connection to the boiler in the night and you come down to a cold house.

Also they like to release updates that don't seem to do anything other than break it, not admit it for ages, not roll back and take forever to fix it