So, they didn't nog out..

[cjard]

The timber framers are more or less finished on my build. The "project manager" comes to me and says that there are some things he ain't happy with.. One is that the 2.6m walls aren't nogged at 2.4 m to carry the plasterboard joins. Regardless that now I have a separate issue with him because he really should have raised concerns as the place was being built, not after the fact, I'd like to know if it's as big a deal as he makes out..

Should it have been something the framers did?
Should I have them come and correct it.
Should I just get on with doing it myself?
Is it essential?
Are there any alternatives to nothing the studs (seems to me the not is just to support joints against differential movement, but I reckon I can do the same with osb strips fixed to the back of either side of the join - does it have to be part of the stud work?

 

[^woody^]

The noggins are important for the plasterboard, but whether it's important to the frame depends on its design.

Why can't they be put in now? Is it all boarded?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So the plasterboard isn't up yet then? If not get the framers back to fit the noggins. What's the big deal? Why faff about with some daft OSB 'solution'?

 

[cjard]

No boards at the moment, and the studs do have noggins but they're at random heights, around 1300 off the floor. Only the external walls are nogged at 2400 because that's whre the osb finished. I'll ask the TF boys why they left the noggins out and get them back to fit them.

In terms of the osb solution, I didn't regard it as a faff to rip a few sheets of osb into 4 inch wide strips and use a collated screw gun to attach them to the top of an existing board (when they exist) so that 2 inches projects.. As I understand it the noggins at 2400 only really support he plasterboard join so it doesn't crack the skim due to differential movement ? Zapping a couple of strips of osb in would achieve the same? (and a narrow rip of osb can be snapped to length so it's not so much a burden as cutting a noggin the exact length?)

 

[^woody^]

The joint will remain flexible and can still crack with your "snapped" OSB idea.

If it's still open, a proper [cut] noggin will take one minute, and I would struggle to think of a reason why anyone would give a second thought to anything else.

 

[denso13]

Use 2.7m gyproc and you won't need noggins for support.

 

[^woody^]

Use 2.7m gyproc and you won't need noggins for support.

Yes, that's an option.

But the is the cost (if they are even locally available), and awkwardness of handling these better than a simple nogging?

Perhaps we should run a competition for the best alternative for a humble nogging?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

A noggin solution will take no time and the fact that it's such a quick and easy solution makes the OSB or any other idea a faff.

 

[cjard]

TF co have said they don't normally nog out internals when 12.5mm pb is used, and I can't find anything either way that says whether 12.5mm pb needs that level of support or not. Ceilings, yes but walls - cant find anything. That said, the boss man said he'd nog out if I asked him to, so I'll get the boys on with it

Which raises the question of ceilings too - none of those are nogged either. I take it that wouldn't be their job though - and there's a raft of other stuff that needs installing (UFH, acoustic wool ) before they go in..

 

[catlad]

Its your choice really at the end of the day whether you use a noggin or a piece of osb, but these things will come back to bite you in the arse a bit latter on.

 

[shagster]

Quite surprised anyone would bother with nogs where PB joins. I've had my entire house done without regard for any of this, more than a year ago and no problems with any of the walls or ceilings at the PB joins. I do have cracks appearing at the join between ceiling PB and wall, particularly on the walls which the joists run parallel to ( skrim tape doesn't seem to have helped). I have been fixing the cracks with caulk as they appear over time.

You do want to avoid thin strips of PB at the top of the wall, I would have thought that's more about the amount of force the plasterer will use with the trowel when he skims as opposed to any abuse it might receive during it's life. You normally wouldn't put any fixings up that high I'd have thought. I would say 20cm width should be just about OK for that as well.

I don't see how a nog will change any dynamics of the two PB sheets coming together. It won't be perfectly placed flush with the studs, the sheets won't be fixed to it, and even if they are...well... nog is wood, PB is not, nog expands and shrinks, PB and skim won't (as much).

What I would say, is that a single nog the whole way up the wall is probably not enough. I had at least two nogs in each stud 'bay'. The plasterer asked for a couple of extras to be put in, but nothing to do with where the sheets joined, as I understood it.

Hope this helps,
S.

 

[cjard]

Interesting.. I was under the impression (from my builder) that the PB was fixed to the noggings at 2400..

 

[noseall]

Interesting.. I was under the impression (from my builder) that the PB was fixed to the noggings at 2400..

No.

You don't see (plasterboard bonded joint) ceilings criss-crossed with noggs do you?

We fit noggs according to span i.e. 1/2 or 1/3 spans. Nowt to do with catching boards. Then again, I NEVER exceed more than 450mm centres.

 

[RonnyRaygun]

Interesting.. I was under the impression (from my builder) that the PB was fixed to the noggings at 2400..

No.

You don't see (plasterboard bonded joint) ceilings criss-crossed with noggs do you?

We fit noggs according to span i.e. 1/2 or 1/3 spans. Nowt to do with catching boards. Then again, I NEVER exceed more than 450mm centres.

Well that's interesting...when I did my house a few years ago I didn't nog any of the plasterboard joints, rationalising that scrim tape would reinforce any joints sufficiently that they would not require a lump of wood behind them.
Eight years later and not a single crack in any of the walls or ceilings...

 

[AronSearle]

The plasterboard on timber frame provides fire resistance and needs to be fully supported. If joints are not fully supported, it may be difficult to prove that they will then provide the required 30 mins fire resistance, as the joint may open up in a fire.

The cracking is just a decorative concern.

Whether or not building control will actually pick this up, or whether you want to do it 'properly'....the correct answer is to nog.