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Socket Location for Oven and Hob

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by garash, 19 Oct 2020.

  1. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    What do you understand the term "socket outlet to mean? In particular, do you believe that a double socket has one or two of them?
     
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  3. winston1

    winston1

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    A double socket clearly has two outlets. Total load averaged over them often stated to be 20 amps.
     
  4. Taylortwocities

    Taylortwocities

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    Averaged over them? That’s not what BS1363 says.
     
  5. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    The MK technical data sheet says that their double (and single) sockets are rated at "13A per socket outlet". That presumably means that, depending upon how one interprets "socket outlet" (which is why I asked you) a double socket is rated at either 13A or 26A - and, given what you've just said, you seem to believe that it's the latter. Where did your '20A' rating for the MK product come from? The test current for the BS1363 temperature rise test is 20A, so that is the minimum requirement - but that does not in any way prevent MK manufacturing a product which exceeds that minimum requirement, hence with a specified (by them) rating above 20A.

    upload_2020-10-20_22-26-43.png
     
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  6. winston1

    winston1

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    It has often been reported on theses forums.
     
  7. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    It has often been discussed on these forums that the minimum requirement to satisfy BS1363 is that a double socket has to be able to pass a temperature rise test at 20A total (14A + 6A). It has also often been discussed that this in no way prevents a company manufacturing a product which exceeds that minimum requirement and specifying its rating accordingly.

    As I have illustrated, MK specify the rating of their double socket as "13A per socket outlet" which, with your apparent agreement, equates to 26A total (13A x 2 outlets = 26A). If MK specify the rating as 26A total, in what sense can the 'rating' be 20A?
     
  8. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    If the rating were 20A, then it would require the protection of a 20A OPD.
     
  9. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    Hmmm - you must be hoping that there were no single 13A sockets (each with 'one socket outlet') on the same circuit :)

    Kind Regards, John
     
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  11. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    No, they are each protected by the plug fuse.

    A double that were only rated at 20A with two 13A plug fuses is not.
     
  12. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    That's common sense - but that is not necessarily what we always see in these discussions.

    You will recall that some people have made a fuss about having 20A DP switches being wired into ring final circuits, even when their load side was effectively protected by a 13A fuse, because the switch is only 'rated' at 20A, yet it is protected by a 32A OPD.

    As I've just illustrated, an MK single socket is 'rated' at only 13A ("one socket output") - so I would have thought that, if they wanted to be consistent, those same people would fuss about single sockets protected by a 32A OPD :)

    Kind Regards, John
     
  13. winston1

    winston1

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    Well perhaps I am wrong about a double socket only being rated at 20 amps but I have certainly seen double sockets fail at greater currents, the usual being a washing machine and tumble dryer both in one double socket.
     
  14. ericmark

    ericmark

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    Well there are double 13A sockets that are rated at 13A the pair, always seem to be special in some way, USB outlets, filters, or RCD built in, most double sockets are rated at 26 amp the pair.
    But those with 13 amp per pair do seem to have a thermal overload built in, this is from MK filtered socket spec. Filtered socket spec.jpg Note reference to thermal overload.
     
  15. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    I do not remember anyone mentioning it before.

    I do but that is not the same as connecting a 26A (2x13A) load to that 20A switch.

    You are confusing different things.
     
  16. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    As I've illustrated, you are wrong in terms of MK's specified rating of their double sockets. However ...
    We do, indeed, hear reports of that, but we also hear similar of single sockets used toi supply loads which draw high currents for fairly long periods (again, things like tumble dryers). In those cases the thermal damage is commonly in the vicinity of the L pin, suggesting that heat is generated in/around the plug fuse and/or electrical connections to it. If that's the case, then I would have thought that what was current was being drawn through the 'other outlet' of the double socket would have little to do with the damage.
     
  17. JohnW2

    JohnW2

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    I don't think I am - rather, I think you are misunderstanding me, and perhaps over-thinking the situation (by applying 'electrical common sense' {which the people we're talking about don't}!) ...

    ... if one thinks of the 20A switch as a 'black box' with one set of input terminals, then some people are obsessed with the 20A 'rating' of that black box to the extent of saying that those input terminals cannot be connected to a 32A-protected circuit, even if there is a 13A fuse downstream of the load-side terminals of the switch.

    If one similarly regards a single 13A socket as "a 'black box' with one set of input terminals" then if they were consistent, wouldn't the same people look at the 13A 'rating' of that black box and say that it cannot be connected to a 32A-protected circuit?

    Kind Regards, John
     
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