Socket near Ceramic sink drainer

[retiredbri]

Hi, I'm new here and have read the topics about sockets near sinks.

I'm planning a kitchen relayout. There may be some changes to the socket locations and if so, the work will be done and inspected by the electrician. If possible, we want to avoid having to move sockets etc.
The house has a dual RCD Consumer Unit.

For my relayout exercise, the new sink will be ceramic and closer than the current stainless sink is now to the dishwasher and waste disposal unit switched/fused spurs and the kettle socket.

The kettle socket will be 350mm horizontally from the tap but the switched/fused spurs will be over the ceramic draining board.
The pipework will be plastic push fit so not bonded to earth.

Your views please particularly with ceramic, plastic pipes and RCD compared with similar topics that had stainless steel, copper pipes and no RCD.

regards retiredbri

 

[flameport]

There is no specific distance required between sinks and electrical items.

However placing switches or sockets above a draining board is a poor design, as it's highly likely they will get wet. Kettles generally have short leads so its likely the kettle will end up on the draining board.

Move the sockets elsewhere.

 

[bernardgreen]

I have never liked push fit plumbing and several friends and neighbours have regretted it use in their houses. New ceilings had to be removed to fix leaking push fits a week or so after the ceilings were finished.

I would not be happy with switched / fused spurs next to a draining board area.

 

[retiredbri]

Thanks - I'll certainly steer clear of the plastic pipes.
With the rcd, is there still the need for all pipework to be bonded?

Regarding the sink, I need move the sink (for the 15th time!!!).

As part of the relayout, the existing fitted oven "cooker socket" will need to be moved about 400mm horizontally. Can this be done with a suitable joint capable of handling the oven current located in the current box with a cover plate?
Because this "joint" will be then behind the newly positioned fitted oven does it have to be maintenance free? Maybe WAGO 221 - 32amp connectors.

Thanks in anticipation.

retiredbri

 

[EFLImpudence]

With the rcd, is there still the need for all pipework to be bonded?

Doesn't apply to kitchens.

As part of the relayout, the existing fitted oven "cooker socket" will need to be moved about 400mm horizontally. Can this be done with a suitable joint capable of handling the oven current located in the current box with a cover plate?

A cooker outlet plate?

Because this "joint" will be then behind the newly positioned fitted oven does it have to be maintenance free? Maybe WAGO 221 - 32amp connectors.

No. Unless I am misreading, it sounds as if it will now be in the correct position.

 

[winston1]

I have never liked push fit plumbing and several friends and neighbours have regretted it use in their houses. New ceilings had to be removed to fix leaking push fits a week or so after the ceilings were finished.

Push-fit plumbing has been around over a decade and has been proven reliable. If it leaks it has not been done properly. There is poor workmanship and cowbors in every trade.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I have never liked push fit plumbing and several friends and neighbours have regretted it use in their houses.

For once, I agree with Winston.

Bernard, Your friends and neighbours need a decent plumber.

Even I can assemble reliable push fit plumbing. And I HATE plumbing!!

 

[JohnW2]

Push-fit plumbing has been around over a decade and has been proven reliable. If it leaks it has not been done properly.

As with TC, for once I agree with you - other than to point out that push-fit plumbing started an awful lot longer than "a decade" ago (I think probably approaching four decades). As I imagine was the case with many, it took an awfully long time for my initial scepticism about push-fit to be overcome, but that did happen eventually.

Having said that, I would personally virtually never use push-fit fittings on copper pipe (unless to attach it to plastic pipe), but that's probably because I get a sense of satisfaction out of wielding a blowlamp - so that's just me

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

Push fit systems are reliable provided they are installed properly, and the system is pressure tested before being put into service.

This from the JG technical information:

Untitled

• flameport
• 15 Feb 2015
• 1

If this is not done, there is a good chance that one or more fittings will not grip the pipe correctly, resulting in failure.

 

[delmel]

Water and electricity do not work well together. I would definitely move or redesign so they are at least a min of 300 mm apart.

 

[retiredbri]

From EFLImpudence

Original message from retiredbri: "As part of the relayout, the existing fitted oven "cooker socket" will need to be moved about 400mm horizontally. Can this be done with a suitable joint capable of handling the oven current located in the current box with a cover plate?"

Response from EFLImpudence : "A cooker outlet plate?"

Sorry to be vague: The existing cooker control unit is mounted on the wall to the left of the oven. The cooker outlet is below the work surface. The in-built oven is to the right.

With the new layout, the cooker control unit, the cooker outlet and the built-in oven will all need to be 400mm to the left of the old layout.
Because I cannot pull more of existing cooker twin and earth through, I wanted to use the existing metal socket box (for the cooker control unit) to locate a join between the existing and a new length of twin and earth. This extended cable would then need to be cut into the plaster horizontally 400mm to a new metal box.
The new cooker control unit and cabling to the lower cooker outlet would then be fitted. New heat resistant cabling would be used to to connect to repositioned built-in oven.
The old cooker control unit would then have a plain plate fitted (labelled "Cooker Cable join").
When the built in oven is then moved 400mm to the left, it will be in front of this joint/plate.
I thought that joints that were not accessible needed to be maintenance free.

So questions:
Can the T&E be joined in the old metal box?
What kind of connector would be needed?
Can it just have a plate with a label?
is it allowed to be located behind the newly positioned built in oven?

Next:
Can the extended T&E run horizontally, in the wall, from the now hidden box to the new Cooker Control Unit?

Sorry to be a pain, I need to get the kitchen relayout finished and know that that the design is practical and meets regulations.

From the earlier post of mine, the sink has now been moved to be away from sockets and switched/fused outlets.

regards

retiredbri

 

[EFLImpudence]

Sorry to be vague: The existing cooker control unit is mounted on the wall to the left of the oven.

How far to the left?

The cooker outlet is below the work surface. The in-built oven is to the right.

Ok.

With the new layout, the cooker control unit, the cooker outlet and the built-in oven will all need to be 400mm to the left of the old layout.

Does that mean it is only just to the left? I.e. would now be above the hob.

Because I cannot pull more of existing cooker twin and earth through, I wanted to use the existing metal socket box (for the cooker control unit) to locate a join between the existing and a new length of twin and earth. This extended cable would then need to be cut into the plaster horizontally 400mm to a new metal box.

Right, but from which direction does the cable enter the box.
If from below then you have various options.
If from the left then it is easy.
If from the right can you put the switch on the right?
If from above then very limiting.

The new cooker control unit and cabling to the lower cooker outlet would then be fitted. New heat resistant cabling would be used to to connect to repositioned built-in oven.

This is now behind the oven, that's where they normally are.

The old cooker control unit would then have a plain plate fitted (labelled "Cooker Cable join").
When the built in oven is then moved 400mm to the left, it will be in front of this joint/plate.
I thought that joints that were not accessible needed to be maintenance free.

That's not inaccessible.

Can the T&E be joined in the old metal box?

Can be. It may be necessary to leave indication of presence.

What kind of connector would be needed?

Depends on the situation.

Can it just have a plate with a label?

Could have a plate, doesn't need a label.

is it allowed to be located behind the newly positioned built in oven?

Yes.

Next:
Can the extended T&E run horizontally, in the wall, from the now hidden box to the new Cooker Control Unit?

Yes. see above.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

waste disposal unit switched/fused spur

Really should use a pneumatic switch for WD units - pretty much guaranteed to be using wet hands to work it.

If possible, we want to avoid having to move sockets etc.

IMO, given the scope of the other work you are having done it would be short-sighted to compromise the layout because you don't want to move electrical accessories.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I have never liked push fit plumbing and several friends and neighbours have regretted it use in their houses. New ceilings had to be removed to fix leaking push fits a week or so after the ceilings were finished.

I had some spring a small leak years after installation. Didn't notice until it had thoroughly soaked a wall, ruined the plaster etc.

Push fit systems are reliable provided they are installed properly, and the system is pressure tested before being put into service.

It also needs designing properly - the pipes are significantly smaller inside - 15mm Speedift, for example, only delivers around 70% of the flow rate of 15mm copper.

 

[securespark]

I can't remember when push fit came in. Certainly some time in the 1980's.

I remember a job I was on in 1988 where a plumber did a whole CH system in Hep20 (or whatever it was) and we sparks sat round betting how long it would be before it sprang a leak...