Some tiling questions for my kitchen project.....this week!!

[Daniel B]

Hello all,

should have researched this earlier really, but hey ho.

My GF and I, have taken this week off work to refurb our kitchen.

We are putting in new units, new worktop, new doors, new flooring, and new tiles - you get the picture.

Just ordered our tiles yesterday, and they are due in towards the end of the week - the actual tiling area will be around 3 square metres.

My question at the moment is based around the existing tiles - our house is a 30's house for reference.

I started taking them off with a bolster chisel, but it appears to take the adhesive off along with the plaster.

I think my chances of getting a plasterer in this week are nil, so wanted to know if I can simply tile straight onto the surface that the existing tiles were on?

And if so, do I need to treat/seal the wall at all?

The footprint of the new tiles will be larger than that of the existing ones, so am hoping i can 'blend' out any difference in wall depth by using the adhesive 'intelligently' if you get what I mean.

The tiles we have bought are not mosaic as such, but they do have a variety of different sized pieces on a kind of membrane - so one 'tile is approx 30cm square.

We have a manual tile cutter, and have also been offered the loan of an electric one - are we wise to take up that offer?

I've never attempted to tile before, so it will be a steep learning curve me thinks - I am expecting a lot of swear words

Any tips on the process, especially considering the type of tiles we have ordered?

Many thanks

Dan

 

[Daniel B]

Just to add, the tiles appear to be taking off the top layer of plaster, only in a very few isolated areas has it gone back to brick.

The majority of it is just rough plaster.....

 

[Daniel B]

Ok, so my research seems to indicate that tiling straight onto the 'rough' plaster should be fine.

But I have seen several mentions of a need to 'seal' the plaster, so not too much adhesive qualities are absorbed into the wall.

A google for 'wall sealer' has turned up little that looks correct, so can anyone point me in the right direction of a product for my needs?

Many thanks in advance

Dan

 

[jctilingservices]

try a tile distributor such as CTD and see if you can purchase bal APD or BAL SBR http://www.bal-adhesives.co.uk/products/bond-sbr.

Just make sure you set your walls out correctly before attempting to start tiling, and yes an electric cutter could be a good idea for you, just remember to use water with it

 

[Richard C]

Use a powder cement adhesive & rough fill any small hollows/holes with adhesive immediately before you start tiling. Most quality cement adhesives don’t need primer unless it’s gypsum plaster or a very dusty surface but follow the manufacturers instructions & if you do prime, make sure it’s an Acrylic or SBR based tiling primer, do not use PVA.

 

[Daniel B]

Hello JC and Richard, thankyou kindly for your replies

I managed to find this on the screwfix website, and have ordered two to collect tomorrow:

Mapei Tile Adhesive Primer 1kg
1kg. Water-based synthetic resin primer. For use with cement-based tile adhesives in priming plaster surfaces and consolidating dusty floors.

Is that the right kind of stuff, or have I made an error?

Also to add to the previous posts I made, further investigation of the walls have now found a few areas where the plaster was in a bad enough state, to need removing, so I have around 4 smaller gaps where I can see brick, these are approv 2" or 3" square.

I then have 2 bigger areas that around 6" in length, and on average 3" wide.

Any suggestions as to a product I could use to fill these areas, ie is there something that would do the job off the shelf ready mix, or should I be looking at getting something in powder form to mix up and use instead?

I have had many good experiences with Gyproc, but am not sure this is a correct usage for it, ie if it will be strong enough to support the weight of a tile/tiles.

Either way, whatever I end up using, I assume I will need to let it dry out for a couple of days, and then would I still need to use a sealant on it as well?

Richard - I see you say to use a powder cement adhesive to fill small holes just before tiling - would you still say that with the newly established larger areas I highlighted above?
And as the areas are larger, would I bebest off not doing it just before tiling, and instead leave it a couple of days to dry out and set thoroughly?

Am hoping to get filling tomorrow, and then start tiling at earliest on Thursday, so am wondering if two days drying time would be sufficient.
If not, I can easily buy it another day by just not tiling around the window, as these are where most of the suspect plaster was.

I shall go and have a browse of various diy websites to try and find a suitable concrete mix.

EDIT: Just found this at B&Q:

Hanson instant concrete is a rapid setting concrete for general use.

Instant concrete is also ideal for steps, paths and wall foundations.

Description:

Dry pre-blended cementitious material to BS 5838 Part 2, containing, Portland cement and graded sharp sand.

Mix ratio:

1 part cement : 3 parts sand

Uses:

Paths, patios, drives, shed bases, garage floors etc.

And to add further confusion, I have just found this also:

Suitable for patching, pointing and general repairs. Designed to set hard in about 30 minutes. Compressive strength typically 7N/sq mm @ 28 days.

Would that be more suitable?
As it happens I have a small amount of repointing I do need to do on the outside also, so would if this is suitable to use inside, it would also fulfill another role......

Oh and one more............

Patching, rendering, brick laying, block laying pointing, general repairs.

That one has good reviews on the B&Q website too.

Anyone out of those three good enough??

Thanks for the other tips, I will lay my hands on that electric tile cutter then, am rather nervous about it I must say, this is probably the only area of DIY I have never ventured into, wallpaper, plumbing, joists, radiators, have all been fine, but I have never had a cause to enter the world of tiling.......

Many thanks

Dan

 

[Richard C]

I assume by “Grproc” you mean Gypsum plaster? Not the best choice as base plasters are not suitable for tiling over & plaster in general will restrict tile weight (20 kg/sqm). The problem with using conventional mortar/render/plaster products you show is they must be allowed to dry out thoroughly before you can tile over which can take up to 3 weeks, depending on the thickness!

Use a cement based adhesive or a quickset render (BAL) to fill out & you can tile over it immediately once it’s gone off, no need to wait; holes the size you mention will not be a problem. Gypsum plaster surfaces must be primed when using cement based adhesives to avoid any reaction between the cement & gypsum in the plaster; the Mapei primer you show is fine. Use only quality trade adhesive & grout, Mapei/BAL/Webber etc. not the cheapo DIY stuff.

 

[Daniel B]

Hi Richard,

thanks for your reply, and your patience!

Yes indeed, that was a typo - Gyproc was what I meant.

But point taken, will not use that in this situ.

I have googled BAL quickset render and see Topps tiles (local to me) sell it, but at a rather inflated cost - and I only need a small amount to carry out the filling, so it appears to be a bit of overkill - or am I wrong?

I have searched online and am struggling to find anything that fits the bill of a 'cement based adhesive'. - nearest I can come up with is tiling adhesive, but I assume it can't be that you are suggesting to use - or is it?

The second item I posted claims to be dry in 30 minutes, so do you think that one might bypass the 3 weeks to dry out problem?

Going to have to decide what to get, and seek it out after lunch - right now, back to the painting!

Many thanks

Dan

 

[Richard C]

I have googled BAL quickset render and see Topps tiles (local to me) sell it, but at a rather inflated cost - and I only need a small amount to carry out the filling, so it appears to be a bit of overkill - or am I wrong?

Buying Quickset Render probably is for the amount you need, just use the cement based tile adhesive as I suggested. Topps are notorious for inflated retail prices which are based on MRRP; you should be able to get at least 25% off that, even from Topps if you try hard enough but many outlets/sites sell it even cheaper.

I have searched online and am struggling to find anything that fits the bill of a 'cement based adhesive'. - nearest I can come up with is tiling adhesive, but I assume it can't be that you are suggesting to use - or is it?

Yes a cement powder adhesive is what I’m referring to. I would use this;
http://www.bal-adhesives.co.uk/products/rapidset
but this;
http://www.pureadhesion.co.uk/mapei-mapeker-grey-flexible-rapid-set-adhesive-c2f-20kg.html
or this;
http://www.vistatiling.co.uk/products/Weber.SetRapid_SPF_Adhesive_20_KG_Grey.html
are equally well regarded by many.

The second item I posted claims to be dry in 30 minutes, so do you think that one might bypass the 3 weeks to dry out problem?

Don’t know, it depends if any additives are used as per cement based tile adhesive; use cement based addy as I suggested.

 

[Daniel B]

Hi Richard,

many thanks for taking the time to explain to a newbie.

BAL it is then - I have found a ceramic tile warehouse nearby which has 5kg bags for around £10.
They sell the 22kg bags for considerably better value, but I can't see what else I am going to use it for.

Will go and pick some up later today

Could I use it for a spot of repointing outside, or is that mad?

Cheers

Dan

 

[Richard C]

BAL it is then - I have found a ceramic tile warehouse nearby which has 5kg bags for around £10.
They sell the 22kg bags for considerably better value, but I can't see what else I am going to use it for.

5Kg bags what's size is the area your tiling? Coverage is between 0.3 – 0.4 sq/m per Kg (depending on bed thickness) so a 20 kg bag is only good for up to 8 sq/m max & that’s without using it as a filler on those holes!

 

[Daniel B]

BAL it is then - I have found a ceramic tile warehouse nearby which has 5kg bags for around £10.
They sell the 22kg bags for considerably better value, but I can't see what else I am going to use it for.

5Kg bags what's size is the area your tiling? Coverage is between 0.3 – 0.4 sq/m per Kg (depending on bed thickness) so a 20 kg bag is only good for up to 8 sq/m max & that’s without using it as a filler on those holes!

Ah sorry, did not make it very clear, I have already paid the money to Topps tiles for the tiles, adhesive and grout - but they are not arriving until Thursday.

Wanted to get the walls as prepped as I could beforehand.

One question for you, I have a few other holes and cracks to fill, could I use a bit of this BAL adhesive for say 80% off the hole, and then finish off with gyproc do you think?

Appreciate this is not the plastering forum, so happy to post elsewhere if need be!

Cheers

Dan

 

[Richard C]

As it happens, I’m also a plasterer amongst other things . If the area is to remain plaster finish (i.e. not tiled) you can still use the tile adhesive as a render to use it up; fill out to about 3mm below the surface but use a sandable filler (Gyprock Easyfill or a any proprietary filler). Don’t try to use Multifinish plaster, it’s difficult to work with & not easy to blend in for the inexperienced & its not designed to be sanded; sanding affects the grain structure which in turn will show through on the paint finish.

If it’s being covered by tiles, just use the tile adhesive if you’re tiling over it; see also my comments in plastering.