Space saving stairs

[FRAN1870]

Just at the design stage for my loft conversion and we are tight getting the stairs in by about 7 inches !!!!

The chimney breast downstairs corballed up originally but has been supported with a steel plate on the rafters and some complimentary brick work.... I can't imagine it's doing much structurally but it must have been done as a precaution as the opposite breast has long been removed.

I have three options ...

1: remove the supporting brickwork and make some alternative support for the corbal

2: break into the joining room and turn the stairs from there up

3: space saving stair case

It's a single room conversion but I know building control don't like them ...

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice regarding space saving stairs as this is the least disruptive option, do the BC accept logistics and cost effectiveness over regs ?

I'm probably talking about 44 degrees over 42 !!

 

[^woody^]

You can't have space saver stairs if there are other options

 

[FRAN1870]

Can just one step be space saving ?

I literally need a few inches ...

 

[tony1851]

44° is not too steep for a staircase to a single-room loft conversion, assuming there is insufficient space to go down to the usual 42°.
If your house is an old one, you may find the existing stairs are steeper than 42° anyway.
There is no hard-and-fast rule on staircases, other than that they should be safe.
If the steeper pitch enables you to get a proper staircase in, I should be inclined to argue the point with your BCO. (I have recently done one slightly more than 44° - there was a lot of chin-rubbing and 'umming- and 'ahhring but BC agreed in the end).

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I literally need a few inches ...

Ahem!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Do you mean there is steel at loft ceiling level rather than at rafter level, why would there be steel at rafter level and how could that support brickwork? Difficult to know about the chimney modifications, have you got a designer and/or a structural engineer involved yet? You’ll need an SE at least anyway at some point.

Have you got a designer involved?

Building Control may accept a spacesaver if there is no other option or to fit a conventional stair would make the whole project impracticable ie too expensive for example so if that is the case it is worth asking, but they are a bit naff. But you’ only know by presenting them with your scenario and some BCO’s are more proactive than others.

We have no idea if using your other bedroom is practical or viable or not there is nothing to base an opinion of that on.

BTW you can’t have that many winders on a stair.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Can just one step be space saving ?

No.

 

[FRAN1870]

Ok thanks for the replies so far ...

I've got a designer drawing it up yes and the SE is involved but has only calculated what we've asked for in respect of rsj and timber.

The front room is feasible but if I can avoid it it's less disruption ...


Totally just noticed that on the winder those treads won't meet regs !!!!! Well spotted and thank you

 

[FRAN1870]

There's a 12mm steel plate that sits on top of the rafters and the supporting bricks sit on that ...

Like I said it's not doing much because the rafters are only 2x3

 

[tony1851]

BTW you can’t have that many winders on a stair.

Why can't he have 4 winders? I'e done them with 4 several times and they've been accepted.

 

[tony1851]

Totally just noticed that on the winder those treads won't meet regs !!!!! Well spotted and thank you

You are mis-understanding the regulation on stairs.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Why can't he have 4 winders? I've done them with 4 several times and they've been accepted.

My bad, my excuse is glancing at a badly drawn stair! You didn't draw it did you tony?

 

[FRAN1870]

I understand that the width of the tread at The centre line "A" should be great than or equal to "B" .... These won't meet regs

 

[tony1851]

I understand that the width of the tread at The centre line "A" should be great than or equal to "B" .... These won't meet regs

As before, you don't understand the regs; the figures you are using are from the Approved Document, which is advisory only and not law.

You can use any standard you want, as long as the stairs are 'designed, constructed and installed so as to be safe for people moving in or about the building'. There are many decisions and determinations on the Government's DCLG website in which steeper and more awkward stairs to loft conversions have been approved by inspectors on appeal. Many BCOs seem not to be aware of these.

Aside from this, FYI here is a detail of a 4-winder stair recently approved.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I've got a designer drawing it up

Then respectfully why are you on here? We don't mind, that's what the forum is for but really that’s what you’re paying your fee for so don’t like to see you getting short changed. Or is he one short of a baker's dozen?