Splicing cables

[dextrous]

So, we are having a fire alarm system installed for the house we're renting - usual stuff (15 smoke/heat detectors, call points, control panel, 5 emergency lights).

Now, the spark who's fitting it is from New Zealand and has told me how far superior all his training etc etc etc , yawn yawn, yawn in comparison to UK and how he, if he bothered to do the uk assessments would be a "platinum" electrician. So, how come he's put a couple of the call points in the wrong places (we and his boss showed him where twice), and screwed a reset-key through embossed paper with a rather unattractive screw (how much are little hooks nowadays? ). Needless to say, moving the call points will make it impossible to hide the current positions due to the type of embossed paper/decoration.

But our main concern is that he has connected one of the emergency lights (in the cellar) to the kitchen ring circuit, in spite of us telling him that it would be better to connect it to the lighting circuit which the others are on which serve the hall/stairs/landing/cellar since, if the mcb or rcd tripped on this radial, then it would seem somewhat obvious to have the cellar emergency light come on to get to the CU, which is approx 6 feet away from this light with easy access to the exposed cables leading to it (he replaced the CU a couple of days ago, so is well aware of the layout)!

But the real mystery, which refers to the title of this thread, is why his connecting this cellar emergency light has been through the use of a multistrip connector with no cover/chockbox, which is (ironically) a fire hazard and will shortly become inaccessable once we overboard and plaster - of which he is aware. Clearly we have told his boss to send someone competent to repair and complete the installation. In the meantime, out of curiousity, which is a better repair to the cut in the kitchen ring main cable - crimping or solder/heatshrink?

 

[sparkyspike]

Yes, crimping is one solution. Otherwise, can you turn the break into an extra socket or something?

Better still, remove the em. light from the ring completely and have it wired into a lighting circuit. Is it a split load board? You can have a fire and only lose half the board, leaving a 50/50 chance of there being no lighting at all.

I think you know this anyway.

 

[dextrous]

Cheers sparkyspike.

Exactly right on all fronts!! All lights are on one side of the split load anyway (existing cables wouldn't reach within the new, larger CU). If RCD trips on this side then em's will operate, and if it doesn't trip then there will belights functioning. Either way, everyone's a winner But will deffo get them to move the cellar em onto the existing cellar light radial.

Just to be 100% sure, crimped connections are permitted to become inaccessible?

 

[dannyboi2003]

You want this idiot back on site to do more work and make good what he's done so far. Based and hat you have said i wouldn't be having him anywhere near the premises. He is clearly incapable of carrying out a safe job!

 

[dextrous]

Cheers Danny - the company is reasonably large with several employees. The one that came to do the periodical was top drawer, just a pity that we've drawn a short straw with another one. Think they have about 8 sparks, all qualified, of whom 3 are niceic registered (for the design/testing and overseeing installation), if that makes sense to you. The other 5 are trained and experienced overseas electricians, but not to UK qualifications.

 

[AndrewDavie]

I lived in NZ about 10 years ago.
At least then the rules were quite a lot more lax than they are here.
eg, ordinary light switch in bathrooms rather than a pull-switch.
If I was hiring an overseas qualified electrician, I'd expect them to at least have achieved CG2382 - not too onerous to get, and ensures they at least know the general differences - in particular in this case, choosing the correct method of joining cables.

 

[dextrous]

I lived in NZ about 10 years ago.
At least then the rules were quite a lot more lax than they are here.
eg, ordinary light switch in bathrooms rather than a pull-switch.
If I was hiring an overseas qualified electrician, I'd expect them to at least have achieved CG2382 - not too onerous to get, and ensures they at least know the general differences - in particular in this case, choosing the correct method of joining cables.

Curiously, this bloke was berating the UK way of doing things ('cos we're so behind the times ). What gets me is that he works alongside uk pros day in, day out, and has yet to have grasped some of the key basics. We have come to the conclusion that his attitude is to find the easiest solution, rather than the best and correct one. Using the kitchen ring instead of the cellar/hall light radial indicates this, as does his can't be bothered to get some crimps attitude. Plus it's always someone else's fault (his bosses, the previous installers etc)

Just lazy and lack of pride in his work. Hence why we will insist on him not coming back.

 

[Spark123]

What is his horses name? If his NZ electrics are so good then why did he leave?
Emergency lights should be on the local lighting unless it has been designed otherwise (i.e. maintained) for it to comply with BS5266-1.

 

[dextrous]

What is his horses name? If his NZ electrics are so good then why did he leave?
Emergency lights should be on the local lighting unless it has been designed otherwise (i.e. maintained) for it to comply with BS5266-1.

Thanks for this key bit of info!!! When the house is fully finished, the fire officer will possibly come round to check prior to allowing HMO licensing - and the system has to be installed to this BS (class A). Thus the NZ fu**er has needlessly broken into a 2 year old ring cable and created an incorrect installation in a fire-hazardous way.

 

[Spark123]

The idea of emergency lighting is to provide light in an emergency, if it isn't on the local lighting circuit so it kicks in when the supply fails then what is the point in it? So you can see by the little green/red LED? Common sense I think.

 

[Spark123]

a "platinum" electrician

What's one of those??

 

[dextrous]

a "platinum" electrician

What's one of those??

Well, it's clearly far above your limited level He was waxing lyrical about how there are different levels of competence, which is fair enough, and how his level of training and experience under the NZealand system would make him the highest of the high in comparison with UK qualifications.

I don't object to him not initially knowing how to hardwire em's into appropriate circuits in a safe and legal way, but I object to him not finding out! It would seem that he is (as Confucious alludes to) someone who knows not what he knows not, which makes him a fool, and in this specific incidence, unsafe and dangerous. What completely verifies this to me is that I said to him in a jocular manner - "do you ever get the feeling that you don't know what you're doing" (I was as the time putting together a kitchen drawer unit and had lost my train of thought and was referring to myself more than any criticism of him), to which he immediately and sincerely replied "no, I've never had that problem". Bit worying, eh?

Now, this leads to another technical question - the RF system has a control panel which says on the box it is suitable for up to 12 smoke/heat detectors. But there will be in excess of 15 of these, plus 4 call points. The NZ mateyboy says his isn't a problem - is this correct? Is there a way round this by hard wire connecting some of the sensors into localised zones which count as, say 1 instead of say 3 component parts?

 

[plugwash]

Personally once the current issue is sorted I would avoid using the company again and make sure to send them a letter telling them exactly why. IMO it is a companies job to root out incompetance among thier staff not the customers.

 

[Spark123]

Now, this leads to another technical question - the RF system has a control panel which says on the box it is suitable for up to 12 smoke/heat detectors. But there will be in excess of 15 of these, plus 4 call points. The NZ mateyboy says his isn't a problem - is this correct? Is there a way round this by hard wire connecting some of the sensors into localised zones which count as, say 1 instead of say 3 component parts?

If it says 12 on the box then 12 it is!
What sort of fire alarm system is it? Manual call points suggested to me it is the type you find in a commercial type premises - usually you can have unlimited number of manual call points unless you're stepping into addressed system teritory. Smokes / heats are usually limited but 12 does seem a bit on the low side.

 

[RF Lighting]

a "platinum" electrician

What's one of those??

Maybe it's part of the JIB grading system. One above the gold card.

The first rule of platinum club is, you do not talk about platinum club