Starting up on your own

[Gaz the Sparky]

HI Guys and Girls

i've got a couple of questions regarding setting up as self employed so thought i would come here and get any advice going.

Ive been in the industry for 10 years since leaving school. Always worked for a big company and the last 2 years moved to scotland to take a slight career move and move into TV lighting. I have now got 1 year left on my contract and i now want to start out self employed.

I have started to take on extra work outside of my existing job to build up a customer base. The two questions I have got are

1. I have been asked to replace a rewire-able fusebox so I'm in the process of writing a quotation for the work my question is how do you guys go about quoting for this regarding coming up agenst faults which you dont see untill your there. Do you include a line on the quotation saying that any faults or problems will require extra remedial work which isn't included in the quote and hence will cost more. Or do you just stick a contingincy onto the quotation to allow for this.

the second thing for now is

2.what type of insurance will i require ? are there any companies out there that specialise in insurance's for Electrical contractors? AM i right in thinking that i need Public Liability insurance

I know part P is required in England and wales but since i have moved to Scotland then it doesnt cover up here so i'm just looking for any advice or tips that you may think are helpful as im just starting out

Sorry for the long post and im grateful for any advice

Cheers
G.T.S

 

[pjcomp]

1 - price on the assumption that everything will be OK, but make sure (in writing) that the customer understands that things can and do appear once you start work and these can add to the bill. Then when you're doing the job, if anything comes up tell them right away, tell them what you plan to do about it and roughly what it'll add to the cost - this isbetter than doing it without saying anything then just whacking in a bigger than expected bill.

2 - shop around for your insurance; try a local broker and they'll probably be able to point you towards a specialist. You'll need public liability at the very least, and professional indemnity can be useful as well. They'll try to sell you tools insurance, but they usually stick such a big excess on it that it's not worth it - read the Ts&Cs carefully before committing.

Look for a bank that offers free banking for start-up business accounts; it may only last 18 months or so but every little helps. Some of them will give you free banking as long as you put £X in a month, but you may need to get established before you can qualify for that.

Be wary of signing up to websites that promise you loads of work - usually they're lead generators who'll take lots of money from you without necessarily delivering the goods. there are several threads on here on that topic so have a good read.

Set up accounts with a copuple of local wholesalers and get to know the blokes behind the counter - they can be worth their weight when you're in a panic and need digging out of the cack.

Make friends with other trades on the job - any you like the look of get their cards and recommend them around, and get them to do the same for you. But only recommend people you feel confident in, otherwise those referrals can come back to bite you ...

PJ

 

[streetlighter]

Some electricians would only agree to carry out a consumer unit change after doin an electrical installation condition report this would highlight any problem areas with an installation before the CU change.

In reality most clients won't pay for an EICR and begrudge paying for the consumer unit, you'll also be up against the bloke from the pub or mate from down the road who will bang in a £50 B&Q special for £20 with no certification or testing.

Had one this week got a call can you connect an electric cooker to existing connection point so agree time and price, five mins later they rang back said they are getting it done elsewhere for £10!! Told them fine call back when it don't work or you get hurt.

I have PL insurance for 2million and I'm also ELECSA part P full scope approved contractor.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

1) Quote for EICR to be done, quote for swap over providing no faults or remedial work is required once EICR has proven that no additional work is required. If EICR comes up with codes requiring remedial work to be carried out, then revise the quote accordingly.
Inform client of this procedure.
2) PLI £2 million, check out simply business website, Finsbury Ins were doing specials for first year businesses.
Also when it comes to doing the books and calculating your taxes, the Inland revenue do offer free workshops to help newly formed business/sole-trader out or people considering setting up.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

my question is how do you guys go about quoting for this regarding coming up agenst faults which you dont see untill your there. Do you include a line on the quotation saying that any faults or problems will require extra remedial work which isn't included in the quote and hence will cost more.

You'll find plenty of examples here of people being advised to have nothing to do with any electrician who proposes that.

You have to do some prior testing.

 

[Gaz the Sparky]

OK i've got the message now that you carry out a full EICR before carrying out a quotation for fitting a new consumer unit

so i take it you guys out there must inform the customer on the phone that there will be a charge for coming out to quote for a consumer unit upgrade and a EICR is required to be carried out . Then you go out carry out a Full EICR to the property and then go away and quote for the work including any remedial work required.

if the accept your quote I take it you then replace the unit and then Carry out a full Test to confirm the new unit is safe hence doing 2 tests

How do you find customers take this paying for 2 tests? i'm not being funny or dismissing anyone just trying to get a better understanding how people already carry it out.

as already said above i have already lost out work because people saying they can get it done cheaper by a bloke down the pub . Are customers happy with paying for you to go out and testing there property to enable you to provide them with a quote.


thanks for the advice so far i will get looking into the insurance's

any more advice which you think would be useful id be grateful

Cheers
G.T.S

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

best of luck with telling them there is a charge to come out to quote!
most people don't want to pay 'that much' for the job, let alone pay for you to tell them how much 'that much' is

The whole EICR prior to a board change debate crops up from time to time on here, search the forum to see lots of opinions.

FWIW, i think that there are a number of factors which may influence whether you think its necessary or not,

age of house,
size of house, extensions, loft conversions, outbuildings,
whether there are any obvious modifications to the electrical install,
any available certs from prior work,
signs of DIY attempts,
signs of kitchen refit,
signs of bathroom refit,
look at the fuse carriers - any signs of black marks/burns from previous problems,
floor coverings, how much hassle might it be if a floor board does need to come up for some reason,

the list goes on. some you may notice, some you won't.

As your experience grows, you'll start to have a good idea which cu swaps will be straight forward and which may prove to be problematic.

 

[RF Lighting]

I'm in the camp of I do NOT carry out an EICR before a board change. I'd never make any money if I did.

You will with experience get an intuition for which CUs are going to cause problems and which aren't.

A few simple quick checks will give you a very good idea of whether your'e going to encounter problems. Ze, ring end to ends and an overall board IR test will give you a pretty good indication. Should only take 5 or 10 mins on a normal 2 up 2 down house.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I have never really understood the cost implications of carrying out a full EICR before a board change.

Are we talking about £150 to tell the customer it can't be done without certain remedial work?

Or, when no problems are found, two days work to replace the CU?

Why not do them both on the same day at the same time?

What faults are going to be found which make a CU replacement impossible or not an improvement?


Don't mention Best Practice Guide no.1.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

I just give them a price and include most faults in it, some days it is really hard going others easier. The only time I have charged extra is when it can be shown to the client that it is blindingly obvious that stuff has come up which I could not have known about before I started. eg their mate made loads of taped joints under the floorboards and in the attic - In this case I can show them and say look at that it needs sorting - if there is an o/c neutral I just get on with finding and fixing it - generally, But I do use my nose when pricing up so I don't get caught too often.

Trying to explain the finer details of broken rings is not easy and I would rather price in a way that allows me to win some lose some, but stick to the quoted price - a virtue that many people value.
\edit as for the cheaper bloke down the pub, if that is the way they want to go, why did they ring me. I always ask how many people are quoting for the job, if it is more than 3 I tell them I am busy for a very long time and to come back to me if they don't find someone else. I also tell them I won't be the cheapest quote and if they are looking to get that I can save us both time straight away. Spending diesel chasing jobs that don't pay is not worth it.

 

[martinxxxxxx]

any available certs from prior work,

.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

OK i've got the message now that you carry out a full EICR before carrying out a quotation for fitting a new consumer unit

No, just checks for things that could cause problems.

Including but not necessarily limited to:

Lack of continuity on ring finals.
Low IR.
Borrowed neutrals.
Poor Ze.

as already said above i have already lost out work because people saying they can get it done cheaper by a bloke down the pub .

For as long as you do competent professional work that will never go away - there will always be some incompetent w****r who will undercut you, and there's no point trying to race people like him to the bottom.

 

[Mursal]

Just keep in mind that some customers will wait 'till you're finished and then tell you about the professional down the pub.
So have a wee chat with the bank manager or put a bit in the mattress, because cash flow might be a problem until you get up and running.

Not sure if you are going to register for VAT or not? Over here small businesses get it hard to meet the turnover threshold needed to obtain a VAT number. If you haven't a number it will leave you at a disadvantage when carrying out work for VAT registered business customers.

Good luck with your new venture

 

[martinxxxxxx]

Over here small businesses get it hard to meet the turnover threshold needed to obtain a VAT number.

Here if you want to be VAT registered it is a phone call away - just ask and they will add you - but once in you can't get out very easily. Even with low t/o they will let you in. But if you are going to do domestic then none of your customers will want 20% added when there is non vat regd co that don't charge it as an alternitive

 

[mikhailfaradayski]

any available certs from prior work,

.

it must just be the circles you roll in.

I've seen them, not very often, but sometimes the customer will keep them.