Steel pipes

[Agile]

I cannot find anyone who is CORGi registered with that name. I therefore conclude that he is NOT registered.

In that case he will be installing the boiler contrary to provisions of GSUR 1998 and may be doing it unsafely. He will be unable to fill in the Benchmark Certificate or notify Building Control through CORGI.

I would strongly advise you to have it checked for safety by a CORGI engineer before using it. Be aware however that the CORGI will not be able to certify your installation under the Building Regulations because he did not fit it.

Tony

 

[Softus]

I cannot find anyone who is CORGi registered with that name. I therefore conclude that he is NOT registered.

Agile, the pratt intimated that the UK and Poland have some kind of reciprocal recognition of accreditiation. I don't know anything about this arrangement, but it might well exist, and it might well be such that the law permits him to work without being registered directly with CORGI.

Having said that, there is nothing like this in GSUR 1998 that I'm aware of, which makes me suspicious, especially since the idiot has already demonstrated (on another topic) an almost complete absence of understanding wrt English Law.

 

[wemyss]

When you use the phrase iron pipe could you describe it. Are they perhaps referring to the stainless steel type tube which was introduced in the late 60s.
Its the same size as copper tube but is silver in colour and was introduced around the Rhodesia problems as a substitute for copper tube.
If it is this type of tube I can tell you about it, and persuade you hopefully to get it removed asap.
regards wemyss

 

[Nige F]

Well, I`d be interested to hear your story, because I was apprenticed in 1970, and one of the first jobs I did was a large house heating system using tru-wel pipe. My activities were confined to lagging said pipes and watching the plumber use compression fittings on the pipe he described as **** . I often wonder how long it lasted. The irony is that now I could buy the house in question, but I`m happy where I am Somewhere along the way I lost my youthful honesty and innocence

 

[jdey]

Thanks wemyss. I'm already persuaded to replace the pipework asap, but it's the asap bit which I've got difficulty with. asap, like most people = as soon as I can afford it. It's held up for 35 years so far without a leak, so I'm sure it'll last another year. Any weblink which shows the risk of failure over time would be very helpful, however. Unreferenced opinion is less helpful.

I can't say for sure what the exact type of steel pipework it is, but it's iron/steel because I've used a fridge magnet to verify it. The only bit that's not painted over and is visible is the bit coming up to connect to the boiler. This is basically dark grey in colour.

In between the abuse on here, I've been told that the steel pipework will be unable to withstand a powerflush or a pressurised system, and that it'll pop at the joints or inside the radiator due to corrosion. This is fair comment but copper also corrodes, and all radiators insides are made of steel and it can't be determined how badly the pipes/radiators are currently corroded just by casual observation.

Logically, I can reduce my short-term risk by mains flushing the system and using an open vented non-condensing boiler of a similar power outage as my current one.

 

[wemyss]

Well Nige I did my apprenticeship in the 1950s and the first time I saw this dreadful tube was doing the plumbing and heating in about 1969 of a large administration building.
This tube could be bent with a pipe bender but needed some muscle.
It could be used with capillary fittings with a special flux by Eutectic but the solder didn’t run very smoothly. Generally awful in comparison to BSS 659 tube which was in use at the time if I recall correctly.
The next time I came in contact with it was about 1980 when a friend asked me to repair a leak for him at his house which he had recently moved into.. It was this awful tube and I used compression fittings on his heating system to repair it. The tube I replaced could be crushed by hand and was like a lace curtain.
Not a fortnight later he called me again as water was coming up through the kitchen solid floor.
When I got there he said he had called out the Gas Board as he had a three star gas plan.
The Plumber from the gas board came and said all tube in the house would have to be replaced.
Derek had only been on this plan for a fortnight and the gas man said he couldn’t understand how he had been accepted as they would not give cover for any property with this tube.
However they would have to do the job as Derek was covered.
I asked the gas man what the story was on this tube and he told me that their boffins had deduced that the problem was the flux which was highly aggressive and took a lot of flushing out on job completion.
Several years later the same plastic bottle of flux was still in my workshop and one of my men opened it.
It had turned to liquid on the top and unfortunately he spilt some on his hand. He had to be rushed to Hospital and resulted in dreadful scarring for the poor chap.
Have never seen this tube since.
wemyss

 

[ChrisR]

to increase their take on the single job by putting in a condensing rather than non-condensing boiler.

It doesn't increase the take, apart from the additional work of the condensate pipe, which is insignificant.


Regarding foreign workers and reciprocal agreements re standards, I believe that it would currently exclude gas installations. Health and Safety law is still our own.

I've been told that the steel pipework will be unable to withstand a powerflush

No you haven't. You HAVE been advised of the different types of steel in use but are, astonishingly, not able to determine which you have.

Logically, I can reduce my short-term risk by mains flushing the system and using an open vented non-condensing boiler of a similar power outage as my current one.

Wrong again. Whether you use a condensing or non condensing boiler, makes no difference to any corrosion problem. Either can be open vented.
The power output of the boiler is also irrelevant.

 

[Nige F]

Sounds like the stuff I saw was different .The name stuck, Tru Wel..welded steel tube.....Well, I suppose I could knock on the door of the house and ask the present owners how their heating system is. I`m not a million miles from it. No flux used so maybe, just maybe

 

[wemyss]

Jdey. On the positive side the steel tube in the Admin Block is still there today without any problems.
I retired ten years ago and by then was off the tools and was the principal Engineer for this site. I had always dreaded the thought of having to replace this pipe as it housed 200 Admin Staff and it was an absolute maze of pipes under heavy concrete ducts.
It would have been a administrative nightmare to have carried this out and I was relieved when I retired in 1996 that it was still sound.
My replacement was warned of this and he himself retired a few months ago. On his retirement function he came over and said “got away with it” there had been no problems.
So who can tell how long yours will last?. Depends on many things.
wemyss

 

[jdey]

Thanks wemyss. You'd have to a very strong man to crush this pipe with your hands which may give a bit more clue to it's specific type.

Anyway, I'm not keen on replacing what seems like very solid pipework with copper because I've read that copper corrodes quickly in soft water areas and due to electrolysis with the steel in the radiators. What are the problems with plastic piping. I read about some aluminium sheathed plastic piping which began with K which exhibits the flexibility of plastic and the strength of metal

 

[chrishutt]

copper corrodes quickly in soft water areas and due to electrolysis with the steel in the radiators.

Oh dear, jdey, it gets worse. You seem to have an unfortunate knack of picking up on odd snippets of info and completely misinterpreting them. Either do some thorough research or get some professional help.

 

[wemyss]

Jdey. When I said I crushed this pipe with my hands it was because it had corroded so badly.
If yours is solid and hasn’t corroded I wouldn’t replace it unless you were experiencing leaks.
Regarding the corrosion of copper this isn’t really so. Copper will oxidise and turn green exposed to weather but not really corrode.
Electrolysis happens if a brass fitting comes into contact with a galvanised fitting.
Only had one experience of multiple pinholing of copper tube and that was on an estate built in the fifties.
Called in Yorkshire Imperial at the time and they said it was a combination of this particular water and that scoured copper tube should have been used.
I never did find out what scoured copper tube was to be honest.
Regarding plastic tubing I’ve no experience of it but seem to remember reading that an ingress of air can happen with this tube used in heating systems. Someone else will no doubt know.
If you feel your pipework is sound I should leave well alone.
wemyss

 

[Softus]

What are the problems with plastic piping.

Still looking for help then Jdey? I thought you'd dismissed us all as incompetent, or dishonest, or both!

The problem with plastic piping are:

(a) you can't use it within one metre of the boiler;
(b) it's quite expensive, relative to copper tubing.

Also, if you use the plastic pushfit fittings, they're more expensive than the equivalent soldered fittings. Also, you have to exercise more care in storing plastic pipe, because even a light scratch could result in leaking past the all-important 'O' ring seal.

The benefits of plastic are generally, although not universally, perceived to be:

(a) Speediness of fitting, which for me means that although the total bill is broadly the same as when using soldered copper, more jobs can be completed, and more customers satisfied, in the same amount of time.

(b) Longevity in some scenarios - for example, plastic pipe does not suffer from pinholing.

(c) flexibility - great for feeding off a coil, underfloors, through ceiling voids, along conduit, and down studwork walls. And for turning without fittings or having to use benders.

(d) flow resistance - plastic is more slippery than copper, and if fewer joints are used then there is less resistance to flow.

 

[corgiman]

the mans a plonker why do we keep posting on this one??

 

[Softus]

I'm still forlornly hoping that he might grow up and realise the error of his ways...