Storage heater dual supply for a panel heater?

[Bwip]

Hello everyone. I’m planning on replacing a storage heater with a panel heater and I’m wondering if it’s possible to make use of the existing dual supply outlets and tarrifs?

My thoughts are that it would be splendid to make use of the much cheaper storage heater supply/tarrif when available but automatically switch to the 24hr supply/tarrif at other times.

I don’t know if such a thing exists, but I’m imagining a back box mounted switch that would take in both supplies. The output would favour the storage heater supply but switch to the 24hr supply as ‘backup’ for when the storage heater supply isn’t active.

I’d program the panel heater timer to favour the cheaper taffif times too.

I know it sounds like a rigmarole but I live in an area with a very cold climate and the storage heater supply comes on regularly throughout the day (as opposed to just through the early hours of the night) so I’m thinking the potential savings would be worth it.

Cheers!

 

[JohnD]

Show us your electricity meter, and the boxes and cables around it please.

What was your off-peak usage in Summer months.

Presumably you are in Scotland?

What does the electricity supplier call your tariff?

 

[oldbutnotdead]

Simplest is a 240v DPDT contactor. N and L to your heater go to COM1 and COM2, cheap N and L go to NO1 and NO2 and relay coil, expensive N and L go to NC1 and NC2. When cheap power is on, relay closes. Cheap power off- relay opens.
I'd suggest using a proper contactor rather than the cheapest 20A relay you can find, since the duty cycle is going to be so long.
I'm also not sure whether such a device is permitted in a domestic environment-,others more knowledgable will hopefully advise.

 

[Bwip]

Here’s the boards (storage and water at top), meters (24hr at top) and teleswitch.

 

[JohnD]

thanks. I am not very familiar with your tariff. I heard about it when I was at SSE, I believe it is from an old Hydro scheme. With Smart Meters, dynamic price changes will become more common.

the important question (not yet clear) is how your peak supply is metered during off-peak periods.

most (all?) of the "economy 7" type tariffs now charge at the off-peak price for all power consumed during off-peak periods. If yours is like that, you don't need fancy switching.

If not, it could be done with a contactor change-over, but it would be a professional job.

Can you find your tariff name on the bills, please.

Also, look at the meter(s) and see if the Peak meter reading increases during off-peak periods. Turn on a heavy load such as cooker, kettle or immersion heater and it will be easier to see.

 

[SUNRAY]

The more recent HHR NSH's use a dual supply, they store heat only using off peak and any top up [and the fan] will automatically use off peak if available or 24 Hr, so you will not require to do any switching.

 

[SUNRAY]

thanks. I am not very familiar with your tariff. I heard about it when I was at SSE, I believe it is from an old Hydro scheme. With Smart Meters, dynamic price changes will become more common.

the important question (not yet clear) is how your peak supply is metered during off-peak periods.

most (all?) of the "economy 7" type tariffs now charge at the off-peak price for all power consumed during off-peak periods. If yours is like that, you don't need fancy switching.

If not, it could be done with a contactor change-over, but it would be a professional job.

Can you find your tariff name on the bills, please.

Also, look at the meter(s) and see if the Peak meter reading increases during off-peak periods. Turn on a heavy load such as cooker, kettle or immersion heater and it will be easier to see.

What I believe I see there is the white meter feeding only the Teleswitch and heater CU. and a dual rate meter controlled by Teleswitch feeding the mains CU.


Incidently you need to fit some blanking plates, as it is you can put your fingers on the live busbars.

 

[Bwip]

The supplier is EDF. And yes, we're in Scotland. The house has recently been insulated (it was a drafty old croft house but now has an internal 'kingspanned' frame so historic usage probably isn't too helpful) and I'm in the process of moving away from old-style Dimplex storage heaters to Quantumns.

Below are the supply times, and the tariff details are in the attached image.

Off-peak

• 23:30 - 07:30

Storage heaters

• 01.30 to 03.30
• 08:00 to 11:00
• 16:30 to 17:30
• 22:00 to 24:00

The panel heater will be in the bedroom (mainly because we don't like the noise of the Quantumn fans) and will likely get most usage between 07:00-09:00 and 21:00-24:00.

Cheers again!

 

[JohnD]

...and a dual rate meter controlled by Teleswitch feeding the mains CU....

indeed.

but can you tell how the charging is done?

 

[JohnD]

I think the "flexible control" tariff is the one that goes on and off, it seems to be a cheap rate.

the appearance of the bill is rather unusual

 

[Bwip]

The more recent HHR NSH's use a dual supply, they store heat only using off peak and any top up [and the fan] will automatically use off peak if available or 24 Hr, so you will not require to do any switching.

I've fitted some Quantumns in the rest of the house, and they're great, but we find the fan noise to be too loud for the bedroom.

 

[Bwip]

I think the "flexible control" is indeed the "on/off" tariff, although EDF seem to have various versions of "flexible control". They're one of the few energy suppliers who will take on the Total Heating with Total Control metering setup which is still very common in my area.

I'm on the waiting list for a smart meter, but I expect it'll be a while yet before it's rolled out area these parts.

 

[Bwip]

Incidently you need to fit some blanking plates, as it is you can put your fingers on the live busbars.

I really should have done that before posting a picture online! I'll get on it...!

 

[JohnD]

Ah yes, "Total Control"

If you can find out how the metered price changes, it will make your question, and the answer, clearer.

 

[SUNRAY]

I've fitted some Quantumns in the rest of the house, and they're great, but we find the fan noise to be too loud for the bedroom.

My apologies, I totally misread your OP and believed you were replacing the NSH with a modern NSH.

I recently did the same as yourself and replaced an elderly NSH in a rental property bedroom with a panel heater as there was never enough heat left for the evening, however the property only has basic E7.

Now I'm confused on how your system works as the Teleswitch seems to switch the power to the NSH CU on the flexible rate and also control the E7 which seems to feed the 24Hr CU. I don't know enough about Teleswitches to know if they are capable of doing those two services at different times.