Stubborn screw removal

[Harry Bloomfield]

I'm wondering if as well as the whacking/torque element of an impact drill, the screwdriver bit used is important too.

I assume you are aware that there is a difference, between Phillips and Posidrive screws, drivers? The correct screwdriver, or bit, is essential to match the screw.

Bits intended for impact drivers, also tend to be tougher than normal. I have never failed to loosen tight screws, with a manual impact driver.

 

[KennyPowers]

The set I got ages ago is a generic brand version of the below set. These are PH by eyeballing them. The driver bit that came with my Bosch drill also is PH looking at it.

The ironmongery screws I've been having problems with I am assuming are Phillips.

The screws I'm replacing them with are PZ, so I probably shouldn't be using the screwdriver set for them.

 

[Burnerman]

Looking at your original pictures, the screws you are having bother with are Pozidriv PZ2.
John

 

[KennyPowers]

The brass colour ones are the ones I've managed to get out and replace, those are pozi, but the original mangled ones aren't?

The only way I can tell is looking for the lines though.

Wouldn't it feel obvious putting the incorrect screwdriver in as well? Like not a good fit feeling?

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Wouldn't it feel obvious putting the incorrect screwdriver in as well? Like not a good fit feeling?

Not always. Both were apparently developed by the same firm in the USA and Pozi is quite similar to Phillips, until you start using power drivers when using the wrong bit can wreck the screw head.

Unlike in the USA we moved from slotted head screws to Pozi in the 1970s for woodwork and a lot of construction (the exception being drywall where for some reason screws have always been Phillips). Inside electrical products from China you'll generally find Phillips screw heads. In recent years manufacturers of ironmongery have been buying more and more stuff in from China, meaning you now get a mixture of Pozi and Phillips screws supplied (sometimes both in the same package on the case of locks and door closers!). The woodscrews supplied seem to be universally awful and might as well be made out of tofu. Unless they are product specific I tend to check them away and use decent quality wood screws with Pozi heads

 

[Tigercubrider]

Phillips are designed to cam out, Pozidrive Are not

 

[nicam49]

The reason that the brass ones came out is that they didn't rust. If you want to be able to unscrew your new steel screws in 10+ years time, then before you screw them into the wood, dip the threads in grease or vaseline.
I think the impact drivers mentioned are the type that you wack with a hammer... I bought mine from Toolstation for £7.99, but think they've gone up a bit since! Here's a similar thing from Screwfix :item 7257R

 

[Odds]

Stanley aren't what they used to be.

Too late now, but was going to say does the latch actually need to be removed, could it have been bent to work on the gate.

My trusty Stan' has been doing all kinds of jobs for me for nearly 40 years. It's become worn into the precise grip for my hand and never lets me down.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The reason that the brass ones came out is that they didn't rust. If you want to be able to unscrew your new steel screws in 10+ years time, then before you screw them into the wood, dip the threads in grease or vaseline.
I think the impact drivers mentioned are the type that you wack with a hammer... I bought mine from Toolstation for £7.99, but think they've gone up a bit since! Here's a similar thing from Screwfix :item 7257R

That is the very same set I bought long ago, if anything is going to work, that will. They do confuse me, which way to turn the adjuster, I always have to test it to make sure.

I do like my manual screwdrivers, when compared to drill/drivers usually. I like the control a manual method gives.

Doing more tidying in my workshop yesterday, I came across my Makita, combi drill, one bought with three NiCad battery packs, that didn't last long. I'd forgotten, but three years ago, I'd rebuilt one of the battery packs as a trial, with NMh cells. I'd abandoned it, when I bought a 20v setup from Lidl. I tried the Makita, with the pack, and it worked fine, so I plugged it in the charger to give it a full recharge - the charger is supposed to be able to charge both. I'll be making more use of the Makita now.

 

[nicam49]

Stanley aren't what they used to be.

Too true! I bought one of their sliding bevels a few years ago, and when I came to use it for the 1st time recently, found that the 'wooden' stock is actually brown plastic and consequently doesn't flex so the wing nut doesn't tighten the gap with the sliding bit, so it doesn't pinch it to stop it from moving. Useless!

 

[DIYer Damo]

Given that they're sitting pretty proud of the hardware you should be able to cut a slot into them either with angle grinder, dremel of file. Then use a flat blade screw driver to get them turning. Once they've turned a few times they will be proud enough you can then take a drill and clamp the head using the chuck and whiz them out no problem. I've also seen a tip online where people place a rubber band over the rounded screw heads to help a pozi drive screw driver grip better but i've never tried it myself. Might be worth a try? Also make sure you're using the right sized pozi drive. Probably a PZ2.

 

[big-all]

normal flat bit slightly narrower banged in with a good tap diagonally across
slowest speed firmly held and unscrew
--chewed up screws are always in the middle never the edge

 

[robinbanks]

the exception being drywall where for some reason screws have always been Phillips

Phillips screws are designed for machine assembly process and the sides of the screw hole are sloped to assist cam out - if there is still torque applied to the screw, the screwdriver can be pulled out of the screw easily.

Pozidriv bits and screw head slots have straight sides for better grip between bit and head, and they resist cam out

Fitting plasterboards with a screw gun is a machine assembly process, where it makes sense to be able to easily remove the bit from the screw even if a torque is still applied