switched fused spur in bathroom

[grizla]

Hi, I have recently replaced my bathroom suite.

In the process i removed an old bar heater that was making the place look ugly. I had the intention of replacing it with an electric towel rail from the same fused spur.

It seems though that the towel rails don't have on/off switches, so is it ok to replace the fused spur box with a switched one? I wouldn't want the damn thing on all the time!

Also, it is right up near the ceiling and difficult to get reach, so does anyone know if you can get a switched fused box with a pull cord?

Thanks guys.

 

[Chri5]

Zones- Do check that your 'old' doesn't sit inside the zones.

What's the wattage of the electric rad ?

Reason I ask is that there isn't a f/spur with a pull cord. Subject to load most pull cords have a 6a rating = 230v x 6a = 1380w.

It's also a 17th requirement for the bathroom circuit(s) to be via an RCD.

Yawn- Part P and LABC rules apply.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

It seems though that the towel rails don't have on/off switches, so is it ok to replace the fused spur box with a switched one? I wouldn't want the damn thing on all the time!

Yes, you can replace it with a switched one.

Also, it is right up near the ceiling and difficult to get reach, so does anyone know if you can get a switched fused box with a pull cord?

No, you can't. You could add a switch on the load side of the FCU, but that would be notifiable.

What about an FCU with an integral timer?

Also, I guess the old heater was mounted up high, and the towel rail won't be, so how are you going to connect it to a high level FCU anyway?

http://www.lightiq.com/images/bathroom_zones_08.jpg

Bad diagram - there's no zone around a hand basin.

What's the wattage of the electric rad ?

Bound to be less than the old heater.

Reason I ask is that there isn't a f/spur with a pull cord. Subject to load most pull cords have a 6a rating = 230v x 6a = 1380w.

Typically towel rails are only a few hundred W.

It's also a 17th requirement for the bathroom circuit(s) to be via an RCD.

Yes, but he isn't proposing to install a new circuit. He does not have to update what is already there to the current standard.

Yawn- Part P and LABC rules apply.

Part P applies, but replacing the FCU and the heater are not notifiable.

 

[Chri5]

Also, I guess the old heater was mounted up high, and the towel rail won't be, so how are you going to connect it to a high level FCU anyway?

Have the element for the rad heater fed in to the radiator from the top ?

An occupancy sensor would do the job.


Sorry re: diagram. Wiki wasn't loading earlier so dragged one from google images

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Have the element for the rad heater fed in to the radiator from the top ?

Wouldn't look good.
Wouldn't get all of the towel rail hot.
Would still need to deal with 1-2m of cable coming down the wall.

An occupancy sensor would do the job.

If it were me I'd want the towel rail to be on for long enough to get the towels warm and dry before I wanted to use them, so only having it on when people are in there wouldn't do.

Same with a switch, really, I think there would be a risk of people forgetting to turn it on, or forgetting to turn it off.

 

[Steve]

A 24h timer.

Fitted outside the bathroom at high level.

 

[grizla]

Thanks guys that's really helpful.

Yes the old fcu is up near the ceiling, and i will need to connect the rad at the bottom in order that it will heat up properly.
In all honesty I was just going to run the cable down the wall behind the rad and try to hide it the best i could. Is this compliant? The fcu is outside the zones in the diagram.

I think the fcu with the timer looks ideal for the job, even better than a pull cord if you ask me! never seen such a thing before!

The house is rented and i've only managed to persuade the landlord to change the bathroom suite because i'm diying it, i doubt he will want to pay for a spark to come in and do anything, so need to keep it simple and cheap, even if it's not the ideal.

Thanks again, if anyone has anything else to say about it then please do.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

In all honesty I was just going to run the cable down the wall behind the rad and try to hide it the best i could. Is this compliant?

That may depend on how good a job you do of hiding it:

• http://www.voltimum.co.uk/files/gb/attachments/niu/l/attachments/c5-43.pdf
• http://web.archive.org/web/20061110111450/http://www.niceic.org.uk/downloads/concealedcables.pdf
• IEE article
• IEE Article on 17th Edition requirements for concealed cables.

The fcu is outside the zones in the diagram.

Are it and the towel rail outside the zones as defined in the 16th edition of the Wiring Regulations? Although that is no longer the current version, the definitions in it are still used in the Building Regulations.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070317013659/http://www.niceic.org.uk/downloads/NL139supp.pdf

I think the fcu with the timer looks ideal for the job, even better than a pull cord if you ask me! never seen such a thing before!

I suggest a 7-day one - you might want different settings at the weekend.

i doubt he will want to pay for a spark to come in and do anything, so need to keep it simple and cheap, even if it's not the ideal.

He may also not want you doing notifiable work and leaving him with no Building Regulations completion certificate....

 

[grizla]

Thanks for all that.

Ok, firstly i don't intend to conceal the cable in the wall, I've just replastered and don't fancy chipping it all off again! I'll just either cable clip it to the surface or put it in one of those stick on trunking type things (I know they have a name but it escapes me now.) I know it will be ugly and a little cowboy, but I don't see how that is (technically) any different to having the cable sticking out of a low level fcu, except the cable is longer. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes the FCU is outside the zones, and the rail is in zone 3. If I understand correctly then that is ok?

And hopefully (as you said in your reply yesterday) this won't be notifiable, so the landlord shouldn't have any issues.

Thanks again.

 

[wingcoax]

Self adhesive trunking is right. Can you get it up to the door frame? it does not show quite so much.

 

[grizla]

Unfortunately not, it's right in the middle of the wall.
I'll try and fix it behind the vertical bar of the rail, so it's at least semi hidden.

Thanks for the suggestion though.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Could you run it in a length of chrome or stainless pipe? It might fit the bathroom ambience better.

 

[grizla]

Cracking idea. I'll look into that.
Cheers for all your help.