Tax & Spend Tories

[Harry Bloomfield]

Again thicko. You gained the benefit of that which was then stored up in wealth.

You seem to be the thicko! First you are arguing that tax and NI payments are not stored (a little way above), now you are saying stored wealth. The government has no stored wealth at all, as such - it takes money in with one hand and pays it out with the other.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Everyone on internet forums (generically, anyway) can and do claim to 'have been poor', therefore can type with authority on 'dragging yourself up by the bootstraps'. They lie about it. In the actual, real world, how does a young singly or couple, renting on min wage, give up work, retrain as a _______ (insert trade, makes no difference), and continue to live and pay bills?

Well, to some extent - I and many others did manage it. Basically you work hard, study hard and are careful with your money. I am very wealthy, compared to my parents.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

Let's stick to the older system and if you get unwell you can sell your house. These changes aren't going to benefit the young, this is to benefit pensioners.

Half the people receiving "social care" are of working age.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

young females being encouraged to get pregnant so they can get a free council home.

Got any proof of that?

 

[Captain Nemesis]

Older generations, who may have bought a house when prices were lower, may have been able to access a more generous pension scheme, and may have never had a student loan or had a zero hours job, are often unsympathetic to the plight of those less fortunate than themselves.

Older generations, who may have bought a house when prices were lower, may have been able to access a more generous pension scheme, and may have never had a student loan or had a zero hours job, are often unsympathetic to the plight of cruel and vindictive to those less fortunate than themselves.

Fixed it for ya

 

[Captain Nemesis]

now you are saying stored wealth

That wil be you (or your demographic) with the stored wealth, that will.

 

[Mottie]

Wasn’t long ago that Ellal was bragging about a £950k pension pot. At this rate, Ellal and partner may need it if they remain on these shores. Ellal must be getting on a bit too as it was mentioned that they had children late in life and allegedly both children are 'doctors'. Late in life for children - possibly mid thirties? I don’t know at what age you start training for a doctor or how long it takes but Ellal can only be a few years either side of 60. Ellal may even be as old as me!

 

[mitch66]

Got any proof of that?

TBH when I was working on LA contracts 25 years ago I'd hear young breeders talking to their mates about this regularly. I remember one who was overjoyed that she was having a boy, because that meant she'd get a house.
She was in a three bed flat but the requirement for a forth bedroom would ensure a house. If you are saying that this doesn't happen you are either a liar or very, very naive. If you want proof, see if you can get to talk to some housing officers OTR somehow, sometime. I appreciate that your virtual signal gland forces you to dispute uncomfortable truths like this but if you look into it, you might learn summit.

 

[mitch66]

Wasn’t long ago that Ellal was bragging about a £950k pension pot. At this rate, Ellal and partner may need it if they remain on these shores. Ellal must be getting on a bit too as it was mentioned that they had children late in life and allegedly both children are 'doctors'. Late in life for children - possibly mid thirties? I don’t know at what age you start training for a doctor or how long it takes but Ellal can only be a few years either side of 60. Ellal may even be as old as me!

LOL. As if lally tells the truth about anything.

 

[Ihavenojob]

Ellal may even be as old as me!

No one could be that old, except maybe JohnD's programmer.

 

[Captain Nemesis]

When I was young, me and Mrs Mottie went without plenty to get a deposit together to buy a house. We had a mortgage when you had to wait for one to be allocated by your building society

So you have no experience of a deregulated market where lenders are heavily advertising their wares, and have (or did) abandoned "fiscal responsibility" wrt LTV ratios, earnings multipliers, term lengths, creative capital repayment vehicles....

and the interest rate wasn’t what it was now. When we got that house, everything bar the bed was secondhand. The house was a wreck, we lived upstairs for a whole year as the downstairs was literally a building site. We had one old car between us and rarely took holidays. We didn’t live on credit - if we couldn’t afford something, we didn’t have it.

Back then, how easily available was credit? Leasing deals from car makers? How widely and heavily advertised were they?

I don’t know of any young couples nowdays that would do that. The want a new house fitted out with new furniture, a tv in every room, holidays abroad, a new car each (leased of course), gym membership, nights out and still want to live like they are living at home with mum and dad and have no responsibilities. It’s no wonder they don’t want to chip in for others as others have done for them and their parents. They are still kids well into their thirties. They need to grow up.

In a liberal democracy with a "free market" economy, to what extent should the state control the availability of consumer products and services, and/or restrict their advertising and promotion? If they do impose controls and restrictions for peoples "own good" does that make them a "nanny state"?

 

[Mottie]

None of the above would had made the slightest of difference to us. We only borrowed what we could afford. We could have borrowed for a new car, we could have borrowed for a new kitchen, new bathroom, carpets, curtains, three pieces suite, had holidays on our credit cards but we didn’t. We showed restraint unlike many today who want it now, now, now.

 

[IT Minion]

None of the above would had made the slightest of difference to us. We only borrowed what we could afford. We could have borrowed for a new car, we could have borrowed for a new kitchen, new bathroom, carpets, curtains, three pieces suite, had holidays on our credit cards but we didn’t. We showed restraint unlike many today who want it now, now, now.

Those would have been unwise if you didn't own the house...

How long did it take you to save your deposit?

 

[Mottie]

How long did it take you to save your deposit?

Just over three years. But we were doing three jobs between us plus I was working evenings and weekends fixing cars in the street.

Those would have been unwise if you didn't own the house...

That was after we had bought the house and moved in. We were prepared to wait and pay for things as and when we could afford them even though we were living in a virtual building site.

 

[IT Minion]

Just over three years. But we were doing three jobs between us plus I was working evenings and weekends fixing cars in the street

So, of you tried to do it now you'd have to do it for over a decade. Perhaps you would have managed.