Telephone cabling for internet

[stender]

Hi All,
Have a question on phone cabe for the internet. I know having joins/extensions results in a drop in speed for the internet but....
My house had 2 lines when i moved in and i've just had one connected. I now want to swap them over so i can move my router. I have the main cable outside my house and a 6 wire coming in to my main socket. I want to crimp the second line in place of the one currently connected which i am ok doing but wanted to know if I crimp both lines to the main pair will that slow down my internet speed? i know it does if an extension but in this case both would be coming off the main pair so not so sure. I am an ex bt engineer but dealt with 4800 pair cables so domestic not my thing

One other question which im not sure the right section for.
I need to run a ethernet cable to a room. I assume that has to plugin to my router and can't be connected to the main phone cable outside?
If I have a cable coming in from outside would i lose any speed terminating the cable to a socket and then having a lead from that to the router rather than having the cable go straight into the router. Reason I ask is the external cat cable isnt that flexible like indoor is.

thanks in advance

 

[rsgaz]

I want to crimp the second line in place of the one currently connected which i am ok doing but wanted to know if I crimp both lines to the main pair will that slow down my internet speed?

Sorry, I don't understand what you are trying to do? Do you mean you have internal wiring which already runs from the master to where you want the router to be? i.e. where the second line used to be?

I assume that has to plugin to my router

Yes.

would i lose any speed terminating the cable to a socket and then having a lead from that to the router

No, ethernet is designed to be used like that with a patch lead at both ends. (in office/commercial/etc)

Don't worry about having the router on an extension. It makes very little difference at all to speed, as long as the cable is proper CW1308 or even Cat5e. My router is not in the master socket, it is on an extension using CW1308, then another extension using Cat5e and the speed is no different when I put it in the master as a test. The signal has come over a mile from the exchange, adding a few more metres makes no difference (except if it's the wrong cable - stranded alarm cable, flat phone cable, etc).

 

[stender]

sorry wasn't clear. outside my house the bt cable is in a small bit of trunking and crimped to the 6 wire that comes into the house. There is then a second six wire coming into the house but not connected. one goes left and one goes right. Question is having both 6 wires connected instead of one. Does that affect broadband speed? In my old house my router was plugged in to an extension 2 sockets away from the main socket and the speed there was 6mb when at the main socket it was 39mb. with having both these 6 wire coming off the main bt pair i wasnt sure if that would degrade the speed. both will goto a main socket. I know with an extension you used to have to cut the capacitor out if using a main socket for an extension.

Thanks on the ethernet it will make things neater terminating the external cable to a socket and then making up an internal lead from that to the router. the external isnt that flexible. I am laying laminate so was going to have the ethernet and 6 wire running direct to the router in the floor expansion gap.

 

[rsgaz]

There is then a second six wire coming into the house but not connected. one goes left and one goes right. Question is having both 6 wires connected instead of one.

I'm still not 100% on what you mean to be honest.

Sounds like you have a block terminal on the outside of the building and that is where you wish to splice in the extension, using the other 6 core cable which already runs to here. Don't do it that way, that will very likely result in poor broadband, and technically, you are not allowed to because it is owned by OpenReach.

Any internal extension must be wired into the removable lower half of the master socket. If you are laying laminate, then now is the time to pull up the floorboards and run some 2 pair CW1308 cable from the master to where you want the router to be and do a proper job. Running in the expansion gap of laminate is not a good idea, they will get squashed!!

 

[rsgaz]

have to cut the capacitor out if using a main socket for an extension

Oh, and cut off all the components to turn a master in a slave/secondary.

 

[stender]

It’s not a block terminal it’s just a grey trunking about a foot long with a square piece of plastic screwed over the top as a cover. Inside that the 2 wires are jelly crimped and go into right side of house into main socket. I’ve already switched them once as the line was previously connected to the left side of the house.

Now I need to switch it back so re crimp the original pair. My question was if having the main pair connnected to both the left and right house wires would degrade my broadband.

For Ethernet I am planning on running cat6 from one side of house to the other. I am running the cat 6 on outside of the house. 1 end I will terminate a cat 6 socket to connect to computer. The other end terminates in my living room away from the router. So plan was to terminate to socket then run an internal cat6 to the router. The floor is concrete so I can’t easily channel out so was planning on running it in floor expansion gap (about 12ft) I need to test if it’s noticable under underlay and laminate but the underlay is only 3mm so probably a no.

 

[stender]

I’ve just found a flat cat 6 so that might be ok for under floor

 

[bernardgreen]

The cable carrying the ADSL signal from the incoming cable to the router should be direct and have no spurs connected to it.

Spurs ( or stubs ) degrade the ADSL signals, especially when a spur feeds a socket with nothing plugged into the socket.

Some of the ADSL signal from the incoming line travels along the spur and, with no load at the end of the spur much of that signal reflects back to the direct route and this reflected signal arrives at the router slightly later than the main signal. The router "hears" the ADSL signal but also with an echo. The echo degrades the recovered data.

 

[rsgaz]

My question was if having the main pair connnected to both the left and right house wires would degrade my broadband.

Yes, it will.

flat cat 6

If your main concerns are about speed, then flat cable is not a good idea BTW.

 

[stender]

What’s wrong with flat cat 6?

 

[rsgaz]

What’s wrong with flat cat 6?

The pairs in network cable are twisted to reject picking up interference from outside sources, as well as interference from neighbouring pairs within the same cable(called crosstalk). Being twisted also reduces the outputting of interference. Your flat cable will be outputting very high frequency interference into your phone cable by running them together, affecting your broadband. The pairs in phone cable are twisted, but not as twisted as they are in network cable.

With flat cable the green pair will be straddling the blue pair. I'd be surprised if it will work at all any longer than about a metre.

 

[stender]

I’m confused. Forgetting about my phone cable. I was going to run cat 6 outside my house from one side of house to the other. 1 end was going to go direct into router and the other in to computer.
I then asked if terminating to an Ethernet socket either end and then using internal cat cable to run to router and computer would degrade speed more than running the external cable straight into the router and computer.
I was advised no it wouldn’t.
I then said that external cable would run in laminate flooring expansion gap and was told not a good idea.

So as an alternative I was thinking instead of running external cat6 outside house I could run a flat cat6 under the underlay/laminate from router to computer. That would be easier.

Would I see that much drop in speed? As I said I currently get circa 37mb download to main socket. At present I get a lot less via dlan/WiFi

 

[rsgaz]

So as an alternative I was thinking instead of running external cat6 outside house I could run a flat cat6 under the underlay/laminate from router to computer.

Oh, I see. I thought you still needed the external cable, then a piece of flat indoors for the last few metres.
Now I realise you mean flat cat6 cable all the way, then no, that almost definitely won't work at all. 0 Mbps!

To fit laminate floors, the proper way is to take of the skirting board and re-fit it afterwards. Saves you having 'quadrant' fitted everywhere. That's the ideal place to hide network cables in a channel in the wall as your floors are concrete, or even in the back of the skirting. (you're never allowed to do this with electric cables though BTW)

If you are having 'quadrant' fitted everywhere, then you can buy PVC trunking which is disguised as wooden quadrant. Either of those ideas would work great IMHO.

 

[stender]

I bought some flat cat 6 (15m) and happy with the result. Getting 40mb to my router which allows for 24mb to computer via WiFi and 30mb using the cat6 so going to run it under the laminate underlay. Thanks for the help.

 

[rsgaz]

Getting 40mb to my router which ... ... ... 30mb using the cat6

That's not great bud. I take it you checked that with speedtest.net or similar?

My router is connected at 20670.

TCP/IP and Ethernet overheads are about 5 percent, so in theory I should get 19.64Mbps, but here's what I get...

(I'll try again tomorrow, mid-day, when broadband is faster!)

So, 17.50/19.64*100= 89% efficiency. I am using a USB-C to ethernet adapter though, so there will be overheads with that, too. I would hope for 95% or in that region really, for a 'proper' ethernet port.

You're getting 30 out of 38(5%off of course), which is only 79%. That's not great. That probably means that many, many frames a second are being re-sent by the router, for failing the CRC checksum upon receipt.

Do you have a 'normal' patch lead you could try taking the PC to the router and plugging in direct? If the speed goes up, this will prove my suspicions, because you really are losing a lot of throughput at the moment.