Telephone extention on patch panel

[EFW]

Hi folks,

Over the last few years I’ve had Virgin for Tv, phone and BB. But have looked at getting Sky installed as the fantastic offer they are given, which makes it cheaper than Virgin. I read that each of Sky’s multiroom boxes needs to be connected to the phone line. This causes me a problem, as I would need to have 5 boxes (2x HD+ for lounge and master) 3x HD for kids bedroom, but only have one phone point located in the lounge. So I was thinking of splitting the phone using a patch panel with cat5 cable. So I would need to have 6 telephone points around the house. The house is being refurbished at the moment.I have done some research, If I understand correctly, it would be setup as follows:

Master phone socket - BT rj45 to rj11 cable to - telephone host panel
Telephone host panel – cat5 patch cable to -> patch panel
From each port on the patch panel comes one cat5 cable to a phone socket in each of the locations where the Sky multiroom can connect too.

Would that be correct? Found some info from Wiseman networking.

 

[plugwash]

Note: in this post I will assume you are planning to switch all your services away from virgin. So you will have a "BT"* phone line carrying both phone and broadband.

Be aware that if you want ondemand on the sky boxes you will need a network connection to them as well as a phone connection.

What I would do is fit a filter faceplate at the master socket. If you go for a "fiber" package** then openreach will do this. If not you can fit one yourself. From the filter I would run a cat5 cable to your network cabinet using two pairs for the phone service and one for the broadband service (this leaves you one spare pair).

At the patch panel in the network cabinet I would wire the broadband signal to a single socket into which the broadband modem can be plugged. The phone signal should be wired to multiple sockets on the patch panel so it can be patched to multiple ports arround the house.

Network equipment such as the modem (if you got for a traditional ADSL package most likely the modem will be integrated with the router, if you go for a "fiber" package a seperate modem will be supplied by openreach), router and network swtich (most routers come with a built in switch but it usually won't have enough ports) can be located in the network cabinet.

Then run cat5 cables from sockets on the patch panel to sockets at points arround the house. You should run at least two cables to each point, one for phone one for network.

At the sockets arround the house you can either use RJ45s for everything and use adaptors (this is often done in offices) or your can fit BT style sockets for the phone points and accept that if you want to swap a point between phone and network you will have to swap the socket.

Then you plug patch cables in to wire the points round the house up as either phone or network.

* Strictly speaking BT openreach.
** Technically fiber to the cabinet with VDSL to the end user.

 

[EFW]

Hi and thanks for the reply.

Note: in this post I will assume you are planning to switch all your services away from virgin. So you will have a "BT"* phone line carrying both phone and broadband.

Be aware that if you want ondemand on the sky boxes you will need a network connection to them as well as a phone connection.

Yes, All services (Tv/Phone/BB) will be supplied by Sky. I typed BT, as I assumed that Sky pay BT to install the line etc. Yep, I had got the network side of things planned, will have a switch and patch panel hidden away under the stairs.

What I would do is fit a filter faceplate at the master socket. If you go for a "fiber" package** then openreach will do this. If not you can fit one yourself. From the filter I would run a cat5 cable to your network cabinet using two pairs for the phone service and one for the broadband service (this leaves you one spare pair).

So, I would plug in a cat5 cable in the filtered master socket, and then other end of the cable I would cut off, separate the wires and put a pair for the phone and one for BB? What wires?

At the patch panel in the network cabinet I would wire the broadband signal to a single socket into which the broadband modem can be plugged. The phone signal should be wired to multiple sockets on the patch panel so it can be patched to multiple ports around the house.

So, I would strip back the cat5 cable to expose the wires and leave them long, and punch them down to the various ports on the patch panel. For example, I would like to have 6 extensions, so I would punch the phone wires on ports 1 - 6 on the patch panel?

Then run cat5 cables from sockets on the patch panel to sockets at points arround the house. You should run at least two cables to each point, one for phone one for network.

So, I would have a faceplate in the lounge, the cable would connect to port 1 on the patch panel?

Thanks again

 

[plugwash]

So, I would plug in a cat5 cable in the filtered master socket

No, you wire a solid core cat5 cable to terminals.

Most filter plates you can buy have terminals on the back to which you connect the phone and broadband connections. (some older filter plates only have terminals on the back for phone, avoid these)

The BT plate used for fiber to the cabinet services is slightly different, it has terminals on the front (in a location that will be hidden by the original NTE5 front plate) for the broadband. Then the original NTE5 plate is plugged into the front of it and the terminals for phone extensions are on there.

To connect to these terminals you would use solid core CAT5 cable (the same stuff you use for wiring up the network points in your house). You should not use stranded cable with punchdown terminals as it will not make a reliable connection.

It's up to you which pair you use for what. Personally i'd use the blue and orange paairs for the phone connections (as is conventional in phone wiring) and brown for the ADSL but it diesn't really matter as long as you are consistent.

So, I would strip back the cat5 cable to expose the wires and leave them long, and punch them down to the various ports on the patch panel. For example, I would like to have 6 extensions, so I would punch the phone wires on ports 1 - 6 on the patch panel?

Right.

Then run cat5 cables from sockets on the patch panel to sockets at points arround the house. You should run at least two cables to each point, one for phone one for network.

So, I would have a faceplate in the lounge, the cable would connect to port 1 on the patch panel?

Generally the proper way to use a patch panel is that "fixed wiring" all terminates on the back. So on the patch you might have something like

Sockets 1-6 phone line from filter (terminated on multiple sockets)
Socket 7 adsl
Sockets 8+ points arround the house.

So if the fixed wiring from the socket in the lounge comes in on patch ports 8 and 9 you would connect a patch cable from socket 8 to socket 1 to make one of the sockets in the lounge a phone socket and connect a patch cable from socket 9 to your network switch to make the other socket in the lounge a network socket.

(obviously these socket numbers are just examples, it's up to you how you lay out your patch panel)

EDIT: the dsl terminals on the interstitial plate are actually on the back.

 

[EFW]

That's perfect!!!! Thankyou for your help.

Regards Kev

 

[EightyTwo]

I don't want to throw a spanner in the works but isn't there a REN problem here? I thought that there was a maximun of 4 and this system seems to have 6. Or have I got the wrong end of the stick...

 

[danechip]

So far as I'm aware, only devices with a ringer contribute to the maximum allowable REN (Ringer Equivalence Number). I doubt Sky boxes count, therefore.

Also. 5 boxes would be 5 runs of shotgun and at least 10 ports on the LNB. Would sky do this? It's not a standard install, what excess would they charge?

 

[plugwash]

IIRC the maximum outputs you can get on a LNB is 8 and if you want more than 8 tuners on the same dish you are into multiswitch territory.

I remember reading somewhere that there were box count limits on multiroom that ammounted to "no more than 8 tuners" and I wonder if this is why.

Maybe they will let him have that many boxes but make him run a couple of them in single feed mode or something.

 

[danechip]

Yes, it is 8, that's why I mention 10 ports. plus the extra coax cabling. Best bet is to just stick with Virgin rather than tear the house apart.

 

[danechip]

Sky+ HD IS AMAZING though with a decent RJ45 connection. Especially for on demand / catchup.

 

[kbdiy]

.... and a box in each of the kid's bedrooms is a recipe for fat kids with all the social skills of a gnat.

 

[EFW]

Hi, thanks for the replies. Yes, I understand about the REN 4. As far as I know, there would be a max of 4 incoming devices before anything goes wrong. There will be 1 telephone connected, and the Sky boxes are out going only, so I don't think there will be any issues.....I hope.

I will be getting a dish installed along with a multiswitch to distribute the Sky signal around the house. I will be using a local installer for that. At the moment, we only want 7 ports on the LNB, as the kids bedrooms will be just the HD boxes (DRX 595) that only require a single cable, but will be installing twin cables to all all room for future, in case they want HD+.

Thanks again

 

[EFW]

Best bet is to just stick with Virgin rather than tear the house apart.

Well, the house being totally refurbished, so I want to get all the cables in (network/tv/telephone) and hidden, rather than miss something out now, and have cables all over the place.

 

[danechip]

Then allow for sky to put their cabling in first. Maybe keep virgin in too just in case you switch back.

 

[SimonH2]

Better still, don't allow Sky to put their cabling in - put your own in and do it properly.

Any respectable installer will be quite happy to do the job - knowing that someone else has done the hard work of pulling cables in. If you get someone doing a "standard Sky install" then he'll be against the clock and given 5 minutes to mount and aim a disk as well as run all the cables - OK, I exaggerate a bit, but they get paid very little for the standard installs and so have to do a lot in a day to make a decent profit.

But do use a good quality cable. That means a double screen (copper braid and copper foil) as a minimum. And stick to "full sized" cable which has considerably lower losses than the thin stuff (as you get in the small shotgun twin).
And wherever you decide to fit the multiswitch, make you you have provision to get a terrestrial aerial feed to it as well. You might not want it now, but it would be "annoying" if you later change your mind and can't get a feed without "disruption".


I'll give a +1 to Plugwash's suggestions. Personally I'd go with two network sockets and either use adapters or fit RJ45 plugs on the phones. If you want to use phone sockets, then you cn buy plates with one of each - or lookup "euromod". Euromod is a standard so you can choose the plate to match your other fittings (whether that be white, polished brass, or whatever) and buy the inserts you want to make your required fitting. So a single plate (which has an opening one module wide, 50mm) will take both a network socket and phone socket which are both normally 1/2 module (25mm) wide. If you get a double plate, it'll take 4x 1/2 modules so will take 2xF connectors as well.
Because it's a standard, you don't need to buy everything from one manufacturer - the inserts can come from a different one to the face plate. This is useful at work as it lets me use the network modules I normally use, while using plates that match the customer's new electrical installation - little details matter.

A couple of tips :
If using a proper Krone punchdown tool, then there's a facility to turn off the cutter. This makes it easy to punch down the wires on one socket without cropping them off - you can then daisy chain them down the sockets and finally cut them off at the last one. Probably worth practicing first.

Don't plug RJ11 plugs into RJ45 sockets/patch panels. They do go in, but a) they tend to be a bit "indistinct" in their location, and b) they can well damage the socket (bending pins 1 and 8 far more than they are designed for). For your DSL connection (ADSL or VDSL with FTTC), just chop the RJ11 off one end of the lead and fit an RJ45.