Telephone master socket and external junction box

[Timorrocco]

Hi all
I have a question on incoming phone wiring and broadband and wonder if anyone can offer any guidance.

The incoming overhead telephone cable terminates on the outside wall at an ancient junction box. The remainder of the wiring is in 8-strand telephone cable – it runs along the outside wall, enters the house through a hole in the wall, has a hand-twisted splice under the floor boards, and then continues to an old-style standard phone point.

The house dates from 1920s, with the 8-strand telephone cabling and internal telephone points installed some 25 years ago. No modern Openreach master socket.

Our high speed broadband service has frequent drop-outs at busy periods. My ISP says that their remote checks on the line indicate the connection to be good all the way to my router.
I’m considering bringing the cabling up to date in any case, as I’d like to eliminate this as a cause - but without spending too much money!

So, questions are:

1. How reliable have people found an ISP's line connection checks to be?
2. Where does the boundary between Openreach’s responsibility and my responsibility lie in this case?
3. Does either my ISP or Openreach have any obligation to improve the wiring or install a master socket?
4. With respect to 3. above, my ISP tells me they don’t have any obligation as their line checks say the line is good, but that I could get anybody, not necessarily Openreach, to do this work at my own expense. Does that sound correct? I thought Openreach had to carry out the work to their sections of the line? It would make sense if Openreach’s responsibility ended at the external junction box, I suppose (hence question 2!).

Thanks for any advice.

 

[sparkymarka]

Never believe the ISP ....I’ve seen master sockets with no line voltage ( 50v ) and they say the phone line is fine ...
What makes me laugh is we all pay line rental ....would you pay car rental bill for a car that didnt start ? No ...so get them to come and sort it ..

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Openreach's responsibility ends normally at the Master Socket, but you don't have, so in that case it will end at what you are calling your first 'socket'. If BT put in the extension and you pay/paid rent for that, they are responsible for all of it. I suspect your 'first socket' is actually an old style Master Socket.

You can do your own line noise check by dialling 17070 then selecting silent line test. There should be an absolutely silent line, no noise, no crackles.

Were it me, I would be inclined to fit a new Master Socket where in your diagram it says 'Entry Through Wall' and fit your router there too. Modern Master Sockets have two sockets, with a built in filter - one for the phone, one for the modem, better than a plug in filter.

The 'hand twisted splice' doesn't sound good. Properly soldered and sleeved would be better or replace the entire cable it is not expensive.

 

[rsgaz]

me, I would be inclined to fit a new Master Socket where in your diagram it says 'Entry Through Wall'

Exactly what I would do, too.

The fact that the wires are twisted rather than jointed in a proper box or even jelly crimped means that someone has done some DIY tinkering in the past. I bet there was a master socket there at one point in the past.

If you are happy for the router to go there, buy an NTE5C Mk4 master socket and fit it there. Buy a proper Krone tool also, not the crappy ones like...

 

[Europlex]

ebay for the Krone tool, a real one, NOT the above, very good prices - not a lot

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The same tool is also used for network LAN socket wiring..

I have a couple of them around somewhere, an original GPO and another included with a kit for network wiring.

 

[Timorrocco]

Thanks all for the advice.

Harry Bloomfield: I just checked and you're right, the first internal socket in the plan is a master socket, type LJ3/1A.

So does that mean that all wiring before that socket is Openreach's responsibility? Or would they say it's been DIY-tinkered (rsgaz) in the past, so not theirs anymore?

The internal length of incoming cable, inside the house before the twisted crimp, is too short to allow me to fix a new Master Socket here other than below the floorboards, which is not good. So in reality I would have to replace the whole length of internal/external cable all the way back to the external junction box. Is this something a DIYer could do: legally, without electrocuting anybody, and blowing up any streetside cabinets?

Thanks

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

I doubt BT would do a twist joint in the cable, so that suggests it has been tinkered with by an amateur. If OR were called in to fix it, they might or might not call it chargeable to fix it properly.

You can legally add extensions from the Master Socket, you are not allowed legally to touch anything before the Master, that is OR domain. Having said that, I did the indoor bit and fitted wired the new socket to mine, whilst OR ran the line in from the pole and got a thank you from the engineer. I used to work for the GPO back in the day, but I didn't tell the engineer that. The cable came in via the eaves, so I fitted the master and the router in the loft, with extension sockets from that, to most of the rooms in the house, before wireless phones were common.

Electrocute yourself - no. When ringing, it is only 50v and not much current. If you know what you need to do, just do it.

 

[bernardgreen]

When ringing, it is only 50v and not much current.

Bit more than 50v, It is 50 v DC + an AC voltage of between 50 and 100 volts ( depends on line length and the type of exchange equipment ) at 20 to 25 Hz.

This can give a painful shock, not good if balancing on a ladder when it hits you.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The actual peak voltage is dependent on the inductance on the line. Engineers take no special precautions when working on the lines and the slight tingle when a line rang, never much bothered me when working on the lines - as said there is no current behind it.

 

[bernardgreen]

the first internal socket in the plan is a master socket, type LJ3/1A.

Strictly speaking the LJ3/1A. is a master socket with no provision for hard wired DIY extensions. DIY extension wiring has to be connected to the incoming line /master socket by a plug, This ensures that in the event of a fault the DIY wiring can be unplugged and a know good telephone can be plugged in for line testing.

The NTE5 Master Socket has a removable front plate that plugs into the back part of the socket. DIY wiring is connected to the front plate. Removing the front plate disconnects the DIY wiring from the incoming line and gives access to a phone socket on the back part that can be used for line testing.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Strictly speaking the LJ3/1A. is a master socket with no provision for hard wired DIY extensions.

Thanks Bernard, I wasn't able to track that model number down - so Tim, you will need to add a modern master socket to your shopping list.

 

[rsgaz]

NOT the above

I said not the type pictured!

So in reality I would have to replace the whole length of internal/external cable all the way back to the external junction box.

Fit a Block terminal 78A under the floorboards instead of the twisted join. As long as the cable which goes to the first socket from there is proper solid core, solid copper twisted phone cable, and not stranded,CCA or alarm cable for example, then you don't need to replace any cable. Just fit a NTE5c Mk4 master instead of the first socket.

I wasn't able to track that model

I keep this page in my favourites, comes in very handy for product codes...
http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/line_jacks.htm#NTE

 

[Timorrocco]

Many thanks for all your replies - it's been busy couple of weeks, so I haven't got back here as soon as I wanted!