The human rights act...

[Space cat]

Can you explain (in simple terms) why so many lawyers and barristers, then use the Human Rights Act as some sort of leverage to protect/defend criminals?

Sorry about the late reply. Been a bit hectic around here recently.

In simple terms --

It's a feature of our legal system, which is an adversarial one. There is also an underlying principle that it's better to let ten guilty men go free than to convict one innocent man; and so, unlike civil cases, a criminal trial is always biased in favour of the defence. What all of this means is:

1) You are innocent until proven guilty.

2) You are entitled to the best defence.

3) Your barrister is legally obliged to put up the best possible defence, whether he/she thinks you're guilty or not.

As somebody once said (was it the band, Faith No More?) "It's a dirty job but some-one's gotta do it." I'm happy to say that it's not mine!

There is another way, and one that we should perhaps consider for some cases. On the other side of the channel, they have an inquisitorial system. The principle of innocent until proven guilty still applies but it's the judge who asks the questions - hopefully in an even-handed way.

Whether or not the French system is better than ours is open to debate. It might at least put an end to the kind of aggressive cross-examination of rape victims that so often happens in British courts.

 

[noseall]

I've just read in the Daily Mail that several important employers (including the NHS) are advertising in Romania and Bulgaria for applicants for jobs next year. I suppose their incentive is that they can get workers for lower pay.

Oh look..

 

[Bod ...]

Oh look..

Talk to Notch about people who change their minds or behaviour.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Noseall's obsessive digging has unearthed some good threads; the forum was more interesting back then. What has happened to all these posters?

 

[martygturner]

Perhaps you should read the act...When it comes to criminals using it over 90% of the cases revolve around the fair trial bit...which seems fair enough if you are on the end of dodgy practice...Did you know that according to the justice ombudsman the cps and the police failed to disclose any evidence whatsoever in 625 cases last year...how can you get a fair trail if you don't know what you have been accused of ? Right naughty boy we are charging you with theft...well what did I steal and when...we are not going to tell you....

the act covers :

• Article 2: Right to life
• Article 3: Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment
• Article 4: Freedom from slavery and forced labour
• Article 5: Right to liberty and security
• Article 6: Right to a fair trial
• Article 7: No punishment without law
• Article 8: Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence
• Article 9: Freedom of thought, belief and religion
• Article 10: Freedom of expression
• Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association
• Article 12: Right to marry and start a family
• Article 14: Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms

This lot seems pretty good to me.

 

[noseall]

Talk to Notch about people who change their minds or behaviour.

Thank the Lord they see sense. That right winger Ragan and Carter saw what a pile of ****e Brexit is too. They are not the only ones. Even Brexiteer politicians are edgy about Brexit. However, it's still a powerful rallying cry so don't expect the ambitious to be telling the truth anytime soon.

 

[Deleted member 18243]

Perhaps you should read the act...When it comes to criminals using it over 90% of the cases revolve around the fair trial bit...which seems fair enough if you are on the end of dodgy practice...Did you know that according to the justice ombudsman the cps and the police failed to disclose any evidence whatsoever in 625 cases last year...how can you get a fair trail if you don't know what you have been accused of ? Right naughty boy we are charging you with theft...well what did I steal and when...we are not going to tell you....

the act covers :

• Article 2: Right to life
• Article 3: Freedom from torture and inhuman or degrading treatment
• Article 4: Freedom from slavery and forced labour
• Article 5: Right to liberty and security
• Article 6: Right to a fair trial
• Article 7: No punishment without law
• Article 8: Respect for your private and family life, home and correspondence
• Article 9: Freedom of thought, belief and religion
• Article 10: Freedom of expression
• Article 11: Freedom of assembly and association
• Article 12: Right to marry and start a family
• Article 14: Protection from discrimination in respect of these rights and freedoms

This lot seems pretty good to me.

I'm surprised that our useless police managed to be involved in 625 criminal cases in a year. That's less than the amount I see in a week on my drive to work.

Have you got details of any of these 625 cases?

 

[noseall]

Noseall's obsessive digging has unearthed some good threads; the forum was more interesting back then. What has happened to all these posters?

Some couldn't stand the distance, other just became exhausted. It takes a lot of effort to tell lies daily.

 

[martygturner]

r

I'm surprised that our useless police managed to be involved in 625 criminal cases in a year. That's less than the amount I see in a week on my drive to work.

Have you got details of any of these 625 cases?

My daughter is on a Solicitors training contract we were chatting about this over diner , the report is on the ONS website it lists and is a standard justice ombudsman report...numbers of charges and complaints etc....

The guardian has done bits on it...https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/oct/31/courts-are-close-to-collapse-over-police-disclosure-failures

my daughters favorite was a woman that was convicted of drug dealing by the single point justice system, she was a petty criminal but was convicted on evidence that was never presented to her. Turns out on the day she was supposedly dealing and was caught she was inside on a 3 month sentence for theft....somebody else knew that and told the police they were her, as she was already a criminal the police didn't see the need to let her challenge the evidence....result 6 months until the case was overturned...
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