The Jew hating thread

[Knave of Hearts]

OK I can see where you're coming from, but the fact is both parties have a claim to the land, the solution at the time was to divvy it up between them, the arabs declined, went to war against Israel and lost, left it a few years, went to war again and lost, left it a few more years and went to war again and lost, had a few intifadas in the meantime and then went to war again and lost.

Now they want the same agreement they were offered 75 years ago, but refuse to acknowledge the right of Israel to even exist.

I don't know what the solution is, maybe best to just have another war or two.

Israel defied the original UN resolution. The Resolution called for the two peoples to live in peace and equality
Israel immediately attacked the Palestinians and drove them out of their homes and land. They are denied equality to this day.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

do you consider what Israel is doing to Gaza an act of terror?

It's an act of genocide, ethnic cleansing and war crimes. Is that terror?
If you think it is, then yes, Israel is committing state sponsored terrorism.
I think genocide and ethnic cleansing is a step beyond terrorism.
Terrorism (or freedom fighters) is a response to an invading military force.
Genocide and ethnic cleansing is an intentional policy carried out by a dominant military force.

or given that there are Hamas terrorists in Gaza perhaps you consider it to be reasonable action

How many of them do you think are left? How many were there to begin with?
What sort of armed resistance are they currently able to mount against the invading Israelis?
These are questions I've asked before and no-one has tried to answer.
The Israelis say they are committed to rescuing the hostages. They do that by flattening high rise buildings?
Is that a sensible tactic?

 

[fillyboy]

Israel defied the original UN resolution. The Resolution called for the two peoples to live in peace and equality
Israel immediately attacked the Palestinians and drove them out of their homes and land. They are denied equality to this day.

The day after they legally declared statehood, they were invaded by Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq.

 

[Notch7]

It's an act of genocide, ethnic cleansing and war crimes. Is that terror?
If you think it is, then yes, Israel is committing state sponsored terrorism

oh I see....................so you can talk about individual acts of terrorism



but here you said you cant

I am not going to list all the individual acts that, in your opinion, require specific mention

Please tell me why you are happy to talk about the specific act of terror committed by Israel in Gaza, but you arent able to talk about the specific act of terrorism committed by Hamas on Oct 7th

 

[Vinty]

You are just a LIAR

You conflate anti semitism with criticism of Israel

He is actually conflating Jewish people with the actions of Netanyahu and his extreme right wing government.
That in itself could be considered anti semitic.

 

[Mottie]

so you admit that state of Israel practices racism, apartheid and genocide

Not in the slightest. Where does that post say anything like that? Seeing JohnD's skewed posts about his interpretation of the acts of the state of Israel does not mean I agree with him.

Why don’t you ask your mate JohnD where those posts of his denouncing other countries that are not inhabited by Jews are - he seems to conveniently ignore any critical posts I make of him.

 

[JohnD]

but refuse to acknowledge the right of Israel to even exist.

Funny you should mention that.

Israel refuses to acknowledge the right of Palestine to even exist.

And is actively engaged in destroying it.

Are you suggesting that is wrong?

 

[Knave of Hearts]

oh I see....................so you can talk about individual acts of terrorism



but here you said you cant

I didn't describe it as an act of terror. You did.
I described it as Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing, as the UN describes.
If you describe it as terror, then it is evidently states sponsored terror. (notice the plural 'states').
If it is Genocide, there are more than one other state complicit.

Please tell me why you are happy to talk about the specific act of terror committed by Israel in Gaza, but you arent able to talk about the specific act of terrorism committed by Hamas on Oct 7th

See above.
Terrorism is not always motivated by religious, political, racial or ideological causes.
Actions motivated by defense of your land and people cannot be described as terrorism.
If you consider that the conflict between Palestinians and Israel began on 7th October 2023, then Hamas' actions can be described as terror.
In which case there was no war, and they weren't war crimes. The UN describes Hamas' actions as war crimes.
If you accept that the war has been going on for decades, Hamas' actions can be seen in the light of that continuing conflict.
And they were, without doubt, war crimes.
It, in no way, excuses Israel's current war crimes, Genocide or ethnic cleansing, which continues unabated.

Now if you truncate my post in order to misinterpret my comments. (that is not me giving you permission to do so!), that is you probably taking my words in separation to my overall post.
But I stand by my comments in their entirety. If you wish to quote me, please quote my comments in their entirety.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

The day after they legally declared statehood, they were invaded by Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq.

The Resolution called for two independent states, but economically linked.
It did not call for one state to be dominated by the other. Nor did it call for a free-for-all land grab.

 

[fillyboy]

The Resolution called for two independent states, but economically linked.
It did not call for one state to be dominated by the other. Nor did it call for a free-for-all land grab.

The invasion by Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq occurred with 24hours of statehood being announced resulting in a war that lasted a year.

 

[Knave of Hearts]

The invasion by Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt and Iraq occurred with 24hours of statehood being announced resulting in a war that lasted a year.

The conflict did not begin in 1948. There had been a civil war continuing prior to that, between Jews and Arabs.

The war formally began on May 15, 1948, ..., although it followed a civil war that began after the passage of United Nations partition plan on November 29, 1947.
The 1948 war was the culmination of a civil war, which took place from November 1947 to May 1948, between the Jews and Arabs living in the British mandate of Palestine.

1948 Arab-Israeli War | Summary, Outcome, Casualties, & Timeline | Britannica

The 1948 Arab-Israeli War, also called Israel’s War of Independence or the Nakba, was an existential war fought between Israel and Arab forces from Egypt, Transjordan (Jordan), Iraq, Syria, and Lebanon.

www.britannica.com

The Arabs, quite rightly, argued that the Resolution violated a UN fundamental principle, that of self determination, and warned of consequences.

 

[Notch7]

I didn't describe it as an act of terror. You did.
I described it as Genocide and Ethnic Cleansing, as the UN describes.
If you describe it as terror, then it is evidently states sponsored terror. (notice the plural 'states').
If it is Genocide, there are more than one other state complicit.


See above.
Terrorism is not always motivated by religious, political, racial or ideological causes.
Actions motivated by defense of your land and people cannot be described as terrorism.
If you consider that the conflict between Palestinians and Israel began on 7th October 2023, then Hamas' actions can be described as terror.
In which case there was no war, and they weren't war crimes. The UN describes Hamas' actions as war crimes.
If you accept that the war has been going on for decades, Hamas' actions can be seen in the light of that continuing conflict.
And they were, without doubt, war crimes.
It, in no way, excuses Israel's current war crimes, Genocide or ethnic cleansing, which continues unabated.

Now if you truncate my post in order to misinterpret my comments. (that is not me giving you permission to do so!), that is you probably taking my words in separation to my overall post.
But I stand by my comments in their entirety. If you wish to quote me, please quote my comments in their entirety.

do you consider the attack on Oct 7th as justifiable?

 

[Knave of Hearts]

do you consider the attack on Oct 7th as justifiable?

Sigh!
I have already described it as a war crime.
War crimes are not justifiable, ever.

Edit:
Incidentally, war crimes cannot be committed outside of a war scenario.

a war crime cannot be committed outside of a war scenario because a war crime, by definition, must occur during an armed conflict. While other serious crimes like crimes against humanity can occur in times of peace, a war crime is intrinsically linked to and defined by the context of an armed conflict, whether it's international or non-international.

So for the UN to describe Hamas murdering Israeli civilians (October 2023) as a war crime, not as terrorism, they are inherently recognising the Israeli-Palestine conflict as an ongoing war.
Otherwise they would call it a crime against humanity.

“These actions constitute war crimes and violations and abuses of international humanitarian law and international human rights law,” it said.

Gaza: Hamas, Israel committed war crimes, claims independent rights probe

Palestinian armed groups and Israeli authorities have both committed war crimes and crimes against humanity during the attack on 7 October and the subsequent military operations, according to a new report by a UN independent human rights body.

news.un.org

Therefore the labelling of Hamas as terrorists is purely a subjective political process.

Perhaps, but I haven't yet got my head around it, a war crime cannot also be a terrorist attack. It's one or the other.

 

[Notch7]

Sigh!
I have already described it as a war crime.
War crimes are not justifiable, ever.

I simply asked if you think the actions of Hamas were justifiable.

You seem unable to give a straight answer

And since you talk about Hamas as being freedom fighters, it’s seem you actually support their actions

 

[Knave of Hearts]

I simply asked if you think the actions of Hamas were justifiable.

For the second time (at least) no war crimes are ever justifiable.

You seem unable to give a straight answer

You seem unable to understand a straight answer.

And since you talk about Hamas as being freedom fighters, it’s seem you actually support their actions

I can't answer for your misunderstanding, of my comments, and subsequent misinterpretation of my thoughts,.
The UN does not consider Hamam as terrorists. They describe their actions on 7th October as war crimes. Therefore the UN see the conflict as an ongoing war between Israel and Hamas.
But actions can be both war crimes and acts of terrorism.
If we describe the actions of Hamas, in October 2023, as terrorism because it intentionally targets civilians to spread fear, we must also apply that description to the actions of IDF and Israel, deliberately targeting civilians in hospitals, food aid queues, schools, etc.

• Terrorism:
  While there isn't one universally accepted definition of terrorism, it often involves the deliberate targeting of civilians and their property to spread fear and achieve political aims.

So IDF, and Israel's war crimes could also be described as acts of terror.