The poor stat of our building trade

B

Bodd

Our building industry is in my opinion the poorest its ever been.
From top to bottom there is a lack of skill and understanding of the industry.

The government past and present have not done enough to control it.
They think chucking Eastern Europe is one answer. But these training courses that give ridiculous wage expectations are not the answer unless they are offer proper training


https://john.net.pl/display.php?M=8409678&C=6a1dc05d0c4d98d7a0ee18acf27decf9&S=1604&L=50&N=1231
 
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Following the link to the actual site it looks like a middle man service trying to cash in on busier times.

Anyone daft enough to fall for such nonsense only have themselves to blame.
 
Following the link to the actual site it looks like a middle man service trying to cash in on busier times.

Anyone daft enough to fall for such nonsense only have themselves to blame.


But they do. I don't know about said site but I've had people work for me who have no idea yet are £7000
Lighter in their pocket.
 
The training schemes for the trades in this country has been garbage for decades, it isn't a new problem. Obsession over health and safety has further broken the camels back. One of the main reason why eastern Europeans are better skilled in the trades is because they have better training in their countries, we do a **** poor job of training our own.
 
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I blame the move from City and Guilds to NVQs.

And a lack of apprentiships.

Let's be honest both are pretty damn poor in terms of what the student comes away with, mainly due to the dislocation between what is learned in the class room versus the actual work environment, which is often nothing like it.
 
Let's be honest both are pretty damn poor in terms of what the student comes away with, mainly due to the dislocation between what is learned in the class room versus the actual work environment, which is often nothing like it.

Thats very true.

I had a lad come for an interview, he brought with him one of his pieces, a gothic arched window sash. It was all made with routers, hand planes chisels and had so much filler you would not believe. Machines like surface planers etc, they arent allowed to use......

Carpentry courses, again they learn to use hand planes, chisels. These days they should be trained how to use festool track saws to shoot in doors quickly, or how to cut celetex quickly -vocational stuff
 
Another problem is that any one can set themselves up as a builder even if they have no experience.
In Canada and Australia you need a formal Qualification to call yourself a builder.
 
All the training I do is to cover the company if I **** something up, they can pass it onto me because i’m trained.

They don’t show us how to do the actual job though. Although saying that, I do appreciate it.
 
Another problem is that any one can set themselves up as a builder even if they have no experience.
In Canada and Australia you need a formal Qualification to call yourself a builder.

Thats true, but what is a builder?

Most builders that do extensions work from architects building regulation drawings and employ subbies for many of the trades. A builders job is as much about project management and building good contacts as it is about trade skills.

A lot of such builders I know come from carpentry or bricklaying backgrounds. Often builders have a massive amount of knowledge and skills.
 
Thats true, but what is a builder?

Most builders that do extensions work from architects building regulation drawings and employ subbies for many of the trades. A builders job is as much about project management and building good contacts as it is about trade skills.

A lot of such builders I know come from carpentry or bricklaying backgrounds. Often builders have a massive amount of knowledge and skills.
That is true, but there is no legal requirement to possess a formal Qualification in order to advertise as a building contractor.
I know an ex policeman who set up a business erecting conservatories and extensions, he described himself as a building contractor to his clients.
He was actually quite successful for a while, but this was due mostly to his foreman who had 30 years in the trade which included building complete houses.
You can't advertise yourself as an architect unless you have qualified as an architect so why can anyone call themselves building contractors.
 
Lack of proper Apprentiships - probably caused by how much an apprentise has to be paid let alone doing enough to gain or maintain their interest.

I was apprentised in a woodworking workshop.
When I started my apprentiship the first tool I was shown was the kettle, accompanied by the Tea pot, tea bags, Milk, Sugar and Mugs. It was my job (initiative) to find out how & what the guys in the workshop wanted/liked.
The second day I was shown the sweeping brush and dust pan in the morning and in the afternoon the bins where the timber offcuts went.

For that I was paid just under a quarter of what the skilled men in the workshop were paid - it was to be a 5 year progression to a full rate. Today the legal requirement is what? Over 50% of a skilled mans rate? The last apprentise I had under my 'wing' started on 60% of a company technicians salary. At the end of 2 years they were on full money.

Once those jobbies was 'learnt' I was allowed to help the guys with simple jobs like cramping up, or breaking up previously worked timber to reuse. Occasionally I was given jobs such as drilling multiple holes with electric drills - which was the start of my down fall... I knew how to sharpen drills as I'd been taught that by my dad who was an old school C&J (indentured in 1938 for 5 years). 'Cause I knew how to sharpen drills when I was told off by the workshop coddy I gave him some 'lip' back* - that marked my card as a trouble maker compounded with previously asking about going to college to do the City & Guilds on C&J. (*What he didn't know was that most of the guys in the workshop knew of my dad and his skills...).

Today it's rare to see apprentices let alone apprentiships that last as little as 3 years; you see college exhibitions and the courses are either full time with little or no practical experience or NVQ's which are run by big companies with a very narrow focus. Either way I don't think it's a good way to learn practical subjects. Apprentices definitely need to know the theory as well as the practical side. My working life apprentiship - in a different but related trade - was a very clearly laid out journey, practical and theory, 2 years seeing every aspect of the job, 12 months of specialisation, up to 5 years coledge - 3 compulsory, the final 2 optional, with other college courses available. Alongside that I did very practical learning in the building trade from my Dad and his building trade mates when doing up houses for me - buy cheap, lots of work and sell on to move up.
 
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Construction labour was obliterated in 2008/9 but has been recovering slowly. That era prompted a vacuum in the construction labour market that was partially refilled by those that previously worked the trade but the shortfall made up by career migrating chancers.
 
I'm out of it now but untill recently I had no trouble whatsoever finding decent tradesman for my property developing.

Are you lot talking about the sites? The greenfield developments of 'executive' housing? I walked around one the other month & could have cried at the poor standard of craft . . . let alone the design & build quality.

I kid you not & I wish I'd taken photo's, but there were 5x houses built up to the 1st floor, the 1st floor had been floorboarded with OSB, this was open to the elements, they hadn't even scaffolded yet to brick up to the roofline.
 
the 1st floor had been floorboarded with OSB, this was open to the elements, they hadn't even scaffolded yet to brick up to the roofline.
OSB?
Are you sure you weren't looking up at the web of those crappy engineered joists? The latest site fad is to use protected floor decking that either has a peel-off layer or a durable coating so that the boards can go down before the roof goes on.
 
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