toilet fan

[angel-gal]

hi there
i m a new memeber today.m wid a problem n i want u all to help me out heheh..
it goes like this we ve a toliet attached together .i want to install two exhaust fans.one toilet's ventilation opens into second toilet.the second toilet opens out to the open space.
so when we use the first toilet i want a switch to operate both fans together n when the switch is off i want both exhaust fan to be off.but when usin the second toilet i want to switch only the second exhaust fan.so please help me with a diagram n is this possible.waitinn for all of u to respond n help me out.comment on this n lemme know soon.
here i was tryin to use a two way switch in the first toilet so tht i can put OFF n ON both the fans at a time.and was thinki of placing one way switch at the second toilet for operating only the second fan.is this possible.let me know.please all of u give me ur ideas.

 

[Spark123]

Not entirely sure Bhutan is in the UK? Is this the only way you can do this, anyone in the 1st toilet is going to get the smells from the 2nd toilet when in use. It can be done using a douple pole and a single pole switch though I'll leave it up to you to consult a local electrician on how it is done.

 

[angel-gal]

thank u spark tht was indeed so sweet of u to respond heheh.thank u.let me wait for more comments ,ideas, and advises.love u

i also want to know the usual two way switch is used for one lamp to be controlled from two different places but here i want to know using one two way switch is it possible to use on two fan to m,ake it ON and OFF same time using one two way switch.this question is in continuei from the above.thank u.

 

[viewer]

Sorry, but if you are thinking the way I've interpreted your needs, then a two way switch is not the answer. Inside the 2 way switch are 3 terminals in a triangle. At the apex is the power to the switch. At the bottom are two connections to another switch or a light. The Wiki part of this forum has diagrams. With the switch up then one terminal is connected to the power; with the switch down, then the other terminal is connected. So, for your scheme, you could make a system which turned on one fan or the other, or both together, but you would not be able to turn both off with this switch in your suggestion because power would be supplied from the other switch as soon as it was turned on.

Is it worth the effort? As Spark123 said, there is a risk of smells into the other room as soon as one fan is running because you alter the air pressures. Could you use both together (perhaps with a duct or box outside) and a timer to reduce electricity consumption?

 

[angel-gal]

yes viewer u r rite when it comes to three termional for two way switch .but here i was thinkin of using four numbers of two way switch for this two exhaust fan tht is two numbers of two way switch in two toilets so tht while i m in the first toilet i can switch on n off both the fans together n when i m usin the second toilet i can on n off only the second exhaust fan.here m thinkin of connecting the fans in series but i want to ask is this possible n wht abt the wire size usually 1.5 sq.mm is enough for lightin from switch box tilll the lamps.do comment on this n let me know my dears.so comment on the four two way switch i ll use ,is this possible?let me know.take care

 

[viewer]

Hello Angel-gal,
Given your last description and you don't mind operating two switches in the same toilet, then it would be easier not to use two way switches at all. I may have got your wishes mixed up so don't hesitate to say so!
I'd take the power to 2 switches - one in each toilet. From the fan in toilet 2 (the one where you want control of both fans) take a cable to a third switch -still in toilet 2 - and from this switch take a cable to the fan in toilet one.
This way you can switch on both fans from toilet 2, but, if the last person in toilet two has remembered to turn off the second switch, then only the fan in toilet one can be operated from that room.
The problem is that people will forget to turn it off, however, this could be overcome by using a timer switch. The sort normally used for staircases, where you push it in and it slowly comes out and so turns the power off after an adjustable time. Not expensive and easy to get in UK, probably same with you. Fit the timer on the cable in toilet two as the third switch.
You cannot connect the fans in series (actually I think you mean parrallel where live goes to a terminal on fan one and then continues to the similar terminal on fan two) because you would always be feeding both fans whichever way you energised the system.
The size of cable depends upon the fan rating (see stickys on forum), please check, but generally 1.5 would be fine for small domestic fans.
You really should use double pole switches on fans, partly because when the wind blows they generate a voltage in the neutral) and if you are taking the power supply from the lighting circuit you need a fused connection unit (FCU) to fuse the fans properly and as otherwise anything wrong with the fans would mean that you could be in the dark.



----SW------------FAN 1-------SW-------FAN 2------SW-------FCU---
l l
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hope this helps, but, as I say, I may have misunderstood so please let me know.
Viewer

 

[angel-gal]

m mailin again heheh.....
thank for ur suggestion will take note of it but i still ve inquirea on my way whetehr its possible or not:
These r my view.just comment if it not suitable:
i m thinki of using four numbers of two way switch for two toilets fans.that is two switches each in each toilet.the drawing is like this:

Switch1(toilet 1)------fan1(toilet 1)-------switch1(in toilet 2)
switch2(toilet 1)------fan2(toilet 2)--------switch2(in toilet 2).the above switches are all two way switches.
usually two way switches are used in staircase when the lights r on we ve option to off the light from downstairs that is when one switch is on other shopuld be off is the concept of two way switch rite.
here my idea was
from above diagram:
if the switch1 and switch 2 in toilet1 is ON then the switch 1 and switch2 in toilet 2 should be OFF or vice versa to keep both fans running.but if all the switches in toilet 1 and toilet 2 are OFF or all are ON then it will keep the fans in off condition rite;
suppose now a person enters the toilet 1 she just has to switch the switch 1 and switch 2 in toilet 1 opposite to those switches in toilet 2,
and while entering the toilet 2, now to ON only fan2 alll she has to do is operate the switch 2 in toilet 2 opposite to tht of toilet 2 switch 2 .these are my views.is this posssible please please mail me.cause here we dont get timer switch as u said.
I M SO thabkful for ur reply.thank u so much.mail me i ll be waitin for ur reply.
hey one more thing can u please suggest me some website where i can get familarised wiall electrical equipements their wiring n so on.will be very grate ful hey take care n love u.

 

[viewer]

Hello Angel-gal,
Your system is good and would work. With your system people in either can switch on one or both fans. If, however, you want (as I thought that you wanted) people in toilet 2 to be able to switch on the fan in toilet 2, but not in toilet 1, whilst people in toilet 1 could switch on both, then simply leave out the switch in toilet 2 which links to fan one and use switch one as a one-way switch to fan one. Two-way switches can be used as one way switches; just put power to com and feed to fan from terminal one.
Have you worked out a wring diagram yet? Obviously materials are limited where you are and the best scheme depends upon what materials you have.
I guess that you already have the two-way switches; what cable do you have (or can get easily/cheaply)? If 3 cores and earth it will require a different approach to 2 cores and earth. Where is the supply from (e.g. light circuit) and is it earthed? Do you have a fused connection unit? Do you already have the fans. if so what voltage and wattage are they and are they double insulated?
If you haven't a diagram already, then:
1. if you can confirm that people in toilet one switch both fans and people in toilet two switch only their own fan and
2. send answers to the questions above,
I'll make a sketch and e-mail it or attach it here.

There are quite a few websites with good electrical starter information. The Wiki at homepage of this forum is good; another is
http://www.diydata.com/electrics/index.php
or Google "Kevin Boone"
These all presume a UK type electrical supply. Most of the world has something similar, so principles are easy to follow, but the USA is a different concept with two voltages in the same house.
Hope this helps. Please don't hesitate to ask if you need more.
Best wishes
Viewer

 

[angel-gal]

u sound so cool.thank for mail again.the answers to your questions are as follows:
yeah the voltage we use for lighting is 230 volts.n about the circuit u asked is there is already till the switch board.i m tryin to make new connection from the switch board till the light points n fan points.i told u i got two toilets.one tube light and one fan in one toilet and one tube and one fan in the other toilet.i dont know the total light watt connected in the circuit.but here in our place a light circuit not exceeding 900watts is assumed with maximum eight light points.but i m thinki its ok cause we will not be using all the light points at a time so load consume at certain time will not exceed 900watts rite...heheh.
here we normally use 1.5 sq.mm for light circuits that is from switch board till light points.supply is from light circuit.n we use neutral n live tht means i guess its 2 core rite?i see a black wire(neutral) and red wire(live wire) these are the color codes we assume here.RYB-RED YELLOW BLUE for live wires i.e there phases.black for neutral and green as earth wire.
but here my case is its a light circuit so i see a red wire n a black wire.i cant see earth, is it necessary to ve earth wire.cause the switch is not metal here.its PVC boxes, white switch box.The wattage of fan is 80watts each n tubes are 40 watts each.and u r rite the poeple in toilet one should switch on both fans n people in toilet two should on only switch only one fan in toilet two.the tubes ve their own switch so no tension abt it i m worried only abt two way switches but now m happy cause u will be sendin me the diagram.here we ve ony one voltage for house i.e 230 v0lts.

hey m so happy for the help u ve given me.can u please give me ur email id on gmail or hotmail messenger so tht we can chat n be more friendlier.my id is (been removed).just add me i ll catch u their.thank u so much.it help me a lot i m learnin more .thanks n take care

___________________________________________
Lynda, moderator

your email address has been removed .

please read the forum rules

 

[viewer]

http://s205.photobucket.com/albums/bb174/ehs284/?action=view&current=Bhutan_dwg-1.jpg

Hello Angel-gal,
Apologies for delay. I had trouble getting the image to show. With any luck, if you paste the link above into your browser you will get the drawing.
To understand it (!)
Given a feed with just live and neutral, you need to take the neutral from the source to both fans. Just neutral from source to fan one then link to fan two.
You can do this in toilet A by taking the source to switch one ( both live and neutral) and then use a connector within the switch enclosure box to take the neutral to the fans (the neutral NEVER goes through the switch itself). From the common terminal on switch oneA take a link wire to the common terminal on switch twoA. From terminal 1 on switch one A take the live to fan A. You can just use T&E for this as you need to get the live and the neutral to the fan). From switch twoA terminals 1 and 2 take the T&E to terminals 1 and 2 of switch oneB. Put red tape on the black wire ends, because both wires can be live. Take a wire from switch 1 B common terminal to fanB.
That's it.
Given your system, I would just fold back the earth wire and put tape round the cable. For places where a single wire is needed as in toilet B, it may be easier, stronger and safer to run the complete T&E cable and fold back the earth and black, rather than pull the cable apart or buy a single conductor cable.
On another subject, you asked about books/websites. There is a good book about electrics published via TLC, but if you use the website to search for subjects, the whole book is available as a series of chapters just as you need it. Very good and, of course, free. Try Google - TLC + electrics + UK.
Please let me know how you get on.
Very best wishes
Viewer

 

[angel-gal]

dear viewer

thanks for the reply n i was waitin for u all time heheh.nevermind aboutt ur late response its ok heheheh.well i m still confused on the number of switch u were talking.is it three number of switches i.e SW1A, SW1B AND SW2B?Its all
two way switches rite?And it operates both fans together when needed and also operates ONLY FAN B keepin others off right?is SW1A and SW2A located at Toilet A and SW2B AT Toilet B right?let me know on this.

i didnt get why neutral doesnt go thru the switch.i know usually the neutral is looped from the switch box n taken to light point n from there again we can loop it to next light right?is tht wht u mean ,let me if i m right about the neutral connection.
hey n wht is T &E CABLE HEHEH.I DIDNT GET whether its neutral or live.
and aslo why do we ve to put red tape black wire(neutral)cable is that to avoid confusion betweeen live(Red,Yellow, blue)wire and Neutral(black)wire?let me know on this

thank u so much for ur reply n time.i also want to ask u about -do u know how to make an estimate on compound lightings hehe.if u know just sent me a rough estimate but only when u have time just take ur time n reply me i will be always waiting.n let me know where can we meet somtime mail n to know more about u and help eachother n i know u will be helping me out more heheh.
tahnk u lots n take care.
regards,
sangay

 

[angel-gal]

i ve search for TLC+ELECTRICS+UK at google but it shows a lot of list n i couldnot find the pages of books i wanted to go thru heheh.help me.thank u friend.
Sangay

 

[viewer]

Hello Angel-gal,
Did you open the picture OK?
To answer your questions:
Yes Three switches. All switches are two-way, but one uses only two terminals instead of three - this one needs to be the right way up if you want to keep the convention of down is on. Look for a label inside saying top, or see that the writing inside is right way up. They work the way you describe.
The point about the neutral was that it is joined within the switch box, but is not connected to the switch itself - you knew that anyway; your description is correct.
T&E is an abbreviation for "twin and earth". In other words normal cable with a (probably grey) sheath, a bare earth in the middle and (for you) red and black insulated wires. As the black is usually the neutral, people seeing a black may make assumptions. When the cable is used to connect two two-way switches, both red and black act as live so to prevent danger a red tape or sleeve is put over any wire which can become live.
The best way to use the TLC site is go to:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/
then look at the technical section. It's good advice; they are good to deal with.
I can't help you with estimates at all, partly because it's against the rules of this forum and partly because it is impossible to compare prices even within the same country. I'd be happy to try and answer questions about design and construction. No problem keeping in touch. Are you really in Bhutan?
HTH
Best wishes
Viewer

 

[breezer]

TLC do export world wide ( i looked)

 

[angel-gal]

took so long actually i was not well so couldnot reply u soon.how u doin?m doin good.yes i m from bhutan a small country in asia.its a pleasant country heheh.nways thanks all for ur help n mail me sometimes.it was nice to meet u.keep mailin
angel