Tracing a suspect pipe path and finding a leak

[ripperuk]

Thanks hugh. Don't forget that I've only dug down only by a couple of inches and the soil is very damp. If this was ground water, then surely I would get water from cracks in concrete on the lower part of the cellar and not the highest point?

Also, I don't know if this matters, but our drain is almost directly behind the wall. Not only that, but this puddle is directly parallel with the neighbour's storm drain...what if we've got an old disused storm drain which could be the cause of problems?

BTW, I've now made it more wider...Not sure if this is of any relevance, but there is a gap under the brick wall. I can feel cold air coming from it, but no water:

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

I'd recommend you get the drains surveyed, before doing anything else. I suspect you may have old salt glazed pipes, which could be cracked, or have broken joints. You'd be surprised how wet a leaking drain can make the surrounding soil.

If that gap in the picture is well underground externally, it may well be worth smoke testing the drains too, shouldnt be a cold draught coming though if its buried!

 

[JohnD]

is that a "newer" concrete floor layed over an "older" slab floor?

 

[ripperuk]

Hugh - regarding the salt glazed pipes.. Where are these usually found?

Yes the gap is at the bottom of the cellar floor (Approx 1.5m below outside ground level) The air that I can feel... Is it not from the brick cavity of the house?

John - I did wonder that, but I don't know how to check if it's old or new.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Salt glazed stoneware was the material used for drainage pipes up until the 1950's (ish), assuming the property is of that (or an earlier) vintage, and the drains are original, then its highly likely you have salt glazed drains. Which, if they have been subject to any ground movement, may crack, or the mortar joints simply disintegrate, with resulting leaks.

 

[ripperuk]

Thanks for clarifying that Hugh. Yes my house was built approx 1935. But one thing I'm not clear about is that are you saying these salt-glazed pipes part of my existing drainage or are you saying an unused salt-glazed pipe could be running under the cellar floor?

Also earlier, John asked whether the exposed part old slab floor, but aren't those stones the actual foundation where the brick wall is sat upon??

P.S: I checked for any signs of ground water after last night's rain....But nothing at all.

 

[Hugh Jaleak]

Your existing drainage will likely be salt glazed pipes, hence my suggesting you get them surveyed to ascertain their condition, and where they run. Unlikely to be anything under the floor but never say never with anything concerning drainage!

 

[JohnD]

I've heard the water co's can analyse water to see if it is clean tapwater (chlorinated), drains water (contains soap) or gutter water (contains traces of leaves).

I don't know how it is done, but is it possible to get a sample tested?

 

[Lower]

Hugh - regarding the salt glazed pipes.. Where are these usually found?

Yes the gap is at the bottom of the cellar floor (Approx 1.5m below outside ground level) The air that I can feel... Is it not from the brick cavity of the house?

John - I did wonder that, but I don't know how to check if it's old or new.

Have you actually got cavity walls? I wouldn't expect you would in a house of that age.

The draft would make me think that crack is in someway linked to the surface and might explain the water penetration.

 

[JohnD]

if the gap is between blocks of stone used as footings (uncommon in 1930's houses AFAIK), is the floor level on the other side of the wall higher, lower, or the same?

have you poked something down the gap yet?

 

[ripperuk]

Thanks so much for your replies guys. Honestly I'm tearing my hair out trying to figure out this damn issue.

Hugh - The drainage dye and camera test was done last time and nothing showed. I rang a few numbers - All have said that a smoke test for drainage is pointless, so I'm really confused buddy. I'm thinking whether I can do a smoke test myself? If so, how?

Lower - I can assure you that this is a 1930's property as per our survey report which was done last year and the report say property is 81yrs old, so that means it was built around 1935. The property's external wall bottom-half is stone and top is brick/rendered. The internal wall is all brick.

John - The water co has said they maybe able to send someone out for a water test. But I'm not sure what sample they are going to obtain because at the moment there is no water. I will let you know how I get on with that. You said poke it? I haven't done that as I assume these stones are the foundation and I may cause more damage? Can you tell me exactly what I need to use and am I poking it downwards/up or straight ahead?

 

[Ian H]

You can buy smoke bomb from any builders merchant. Light it, put it in a manhole, close the lid and the smoke should all be pulled out of the soil stack.

Any internal leaks from the drains would also draw smoke through into your house.

 

[ripperuk]

Ian - I have no access to the manhole as it's on the neighbour's side. Is it worth doing the smoke test from the inside of the property, i.e. from drop the smoke pellet into that gap between the stones?

 

[undistilled]

The smoke bomb will have to be inside the known drainage system because only then are you going to know that any smoke signals are from within it.

 

[ripperuk]

If I simply drop it in my drains or even if I could get access to the manhole (unlikely), there is a channel running at the bottom with water... Surely the smoke bomb will just go off due to it becoming wet?