As I say a bit pointless discussing anything with a crank like you who's not prepared to say how far he'd go in mutilating minors bodies in pursuit of deviants 'ideal world'
Transexuality
- Thread starter Roy Bloom
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Any proof of your fantastical allegations?
And you never have any intention of discussing anything. You never have and you never will.
I have not read her book and think religion is better off out of the debate. The opinions of a culture 5,000 years in the past isn't really relevant to the modern world we live in.
I think your viewpoint on the mental conflict of an individual considering the procedure needs further insight, especially with regard to anyone under the age of 21 who is being advised to consider gender transformation with no thought given to how they may feel in ten or twenty years time after such a life-changing decision is made.
Agreed, but that is what religious conservatives base their moral values on.
And a crticism of Dr Mirriam Groissman's book on the maturing of a Jewish girl mentions her Old Testament approach to the issue.
I think we can assume that Dr Mirriam Grossman carefully selects which bits of the Old Testament she pontificates.
Fair comment, if that was the average age for such procedures. I vaguely remember that 45 is much closer to the average age for such procedures.
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Then it's clear this issue is part of a wider 'culture war' where liberal ideals have conflicted with traditional Conservatism in the U.S and developed in the UK over the last ten years or so. The biggest objection throughout this thread is the indoctrination of children who are highly impressionable to this idealistic programme that has caused a conservative backlash to gather momentum, inflicting grave doubts in schools about teaching sexual health of any kind, fearful of a liberal response from Trans activists who swoop like harpies upon people like Sharon Davies and J.K. Rowling who express their own beliefs.
Some, like Dr Miriam Grossman, have raised their concerns about the current sex education in schools.
As I've mentioned before, their hypchrosy is evident because they want to swap the current curriculim with their own message. A message that is the mainstream of religious conservatists.
"As Dr Grossman acknowledges, non-binary/inter-sex occurs:
Money was a distinguished psychologist and researcher at Johns Hopkins in the fifties. His area of expertise was what was then called hermaphroditism, now called intersex. He was fascinated by these individuals born with ambiguous genitalia. This was at the time before ultrasounds, so we really did discover at birth whether babies were boys or girls. In certain, extremely rare cases, it was not clear from the genitalia whether the baby was a boy or a girl.
Now, these cases represented perhaps 0.02 percent of births, and there’s a vast array of medical conditions and chromosomal conditions that can cause ambiguous genitalia. But again, they are extremely rare."
How Gender Activists Defaced Pediatric Medicine: An Interview with Miriam Grossman, MD
“My book is based on a series of dangerous ideas that have led us to where we are now. Beginning with the insidious theories of John Money, these ideas progressed through the fields of psychology and psychiatry and eventually infiltrated our educational and legal systems—corrupting many of the count
www.thepublicdiscourse.com
I'm not about to debate the actual numbers with her, rather her message is that these people do not exist, and therefore should not be catered for.
They are a minority group and deserve the protection of the law, if we are to promote an inclusive society. What we must not do is to deny them or that they exist.
It's been suggested that Dr Grossman's core target is the parents:
"Grossman’s core client base is parents who are anxious or upset about their child’s gender identity and expression."
Miriam Grossman vs. transgender people - Transgender Map
Miriam Grossman is an American psychiatrist and anti-transgender activist. Grossman claims to be "exposing the origin and hazards of the Sexuality and Gender Industry." Grossman has found there is a lucrative market offering services for "gender-confused young people and their parents." Grossman...
www.transgendermap.com
I have often argued that parents suffer from just as much (or more) trauma as their children when they witness a near-death experience of their children, e.g. accident, drowning etc.
I can imagine the trauma that religious conservative parents would suffer if/when their children raise the issue of trans gender with them. They might well need some form of treatment.
But that treatment should not and must not consist of a straightforward denial that trans gender exist.
Dr Grossman is more concerned with her view of trans gender than she is about the suicide rate among children.
TERFs and anyone else, are allowed to express their opinion, and in public. They can't really complain when their opinion is refuted and questioned by others. Trans activists have an equal right to express their opinion. They are often defending their very existence against such vocal TERFs, etc.
I did mention before about some people who 'adopt' a cause in order to promote surreptitously their real agenda.
It's easy to understand how some might be seen to be doing this.
For instance, when a leading feminist adopts a current issue to further their own argument about their original concerns.
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or to summarise - angry trans people don't want to be told they are wrong or suffering from mental illness.
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Some, like Dr Miriam Grossman, have raised their concerns about the current sex education in schools.
As I've mentioned before, their hypchrosy is evident because they want to swap the current curriculim with their own message. A message that is the mainstream of religious conservatists.
"As Dr Grossman acknowledges, non-binary/inter-sex occurs:
Money was a distinguished psychologist and researcher at Johns Hopkins in the fifties. His area of expertise was what was then called hermaphroditism, now called intersex. He was fascinated by these individuals born with ambiguous genitalia. This was at the time before ultrasounds, so we really did discover at birth whether babies were boys or girls. In certain, extremely rare cases, it was not clear from the genitalia whether the baby was a boy or a girl.
Now, these cases represented perhaps 0.02 percent of births, and there’s a vast array of medical conditions and chromosomal conditions that can cause ambiguous genitalia. But again, they are extremely rare."
How Gender Activists Defaced Pediatric Medicine: An Interview with Miriam Grossman, MD
“My book is based on a series of dangerous ideas that have led us to where we are now. Beginning with the insidious theories of John Money, these ideas progressed through the fields of psychology and psychiatry and eventually infiltrated our educational and legal systems—corrupting many of the count
I'm not about to debate the actual numbers with her, rather her message is that these people do not exist, and therefore should not be catered for.
They are a minority group and deserve the protection of the law, if we are to promote an inclusive society. What we must not do is to deny them or that they exist.
It's been suggested that Dr Grossman's core target is the parents:
"Grossman’s core client base is parents who are anxious or upset about their child’s gender identity and expression."
I would fully support any resources aimed at the parents of children considering trans gender issues.Miriam Grossman vs. transgender people - Transgender Map
Miriam Grossman is an American psychiatrist and anti-transgender activist. Grossman claims to be "exposing the origin and hazards of the Sexuality and Gender Industry." Grossman has found there is a lucrative market offering services for "gender-confused young people and their parents." Grossman...
I have often argued that parents suffer from just as much (or more) trauma as their children when they witness a near-death experience of their children, e.g. accident, drowning etc.
I can imagine the trauma that religious conservative parents would suffer if/when their children raise the issue of trans gender with them. They might well need some form of treatment.
But that treatment should not and must not consist of a straightforward denial that trans gender exist.
Dr Grossman is more concerned with her view of trans gender than she is about the suicide rate among children.
TERFs and anyone else, are allowed to express their opinion, and in public. They can't really complain when their opinion is refuted and questioned by others. Trans activists have an equal right to express their opinion. They are often defending their very existence against such vocal TERFs, etc.
I did mention before about some people who 'adopt' a cause in order to promote surreptitously their real agenda.
It's easy to understand how some might be seen to be doing this.
For instance, when a leading feminist adopts a current issue to further their own argument about their original concerns.
Funny you mention Dr. Money. Very influential character and one who anyone who hasn't read up on him and his most famous patients, David and Brian Reimer, really should.
Dr. John Money Gender Experiment: Reimer Twins
The John Money Experiment involved David Reimer, a twin boy raised as a girl following a botched circumcision. Money asserted gender was primarily learned, not innate. However, David struggled with his female identity and transitioned back to male in adolescence. The case challenged Money's...
www.simplypsychology.org
Dr John Money and the sinister origins of gender ideology
How a cruel, amoral experiment helped birth today's trans movement.
www.spiked-online.com
tl;dr With David Reimer he completely disproved his own theories on gender blank slatism which were nevertheless adopted pretty much wholesale by the psychological profession, leading the the situation we find ourselves in today.
Fun fact! - Far from being used since time immemorial as trans fans would have you believe, the term 'gender role' was coined by Dr. Money only a few decades ago in the 60s.
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That could apply to anyone suffering a medical, biologial, socially induced condition.
If I'm homeless, I'd probably get pretty angry if I was consistently told that I'm not homeless because such a condition could not exist.
If I was dead, I'd get pretty angry if I was persistently told I'm not dead.
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No-one would dispute that there are cases of trans gender undergoing certain procedures and later regretting it.Funny you mention Dr. Money. Very influential character and one who anyone who hasn't read up on him and his most famous patients, David and Brian Reimer, really should.
Dr. John Money Gender Experiment: Reimer Twins
The John Money Experiment involved David Reimer, a twin boy raised as a girl following a botched circumcision. Money asserted gender was primarily learned, not innate. However, David struggled with his female identity and transitioned back to male in adolescence. The case challenged Money's...
Dr John Money and the sinister origins of gender ideology
How a cruel, amoral experiment helped birth today's trans movement.
tl;dr With David Reimer he completely disproved his own theories on gender blank slatism which were nevertheless adopted pretty much wholesale by the psychological profession, leading the the situation we find ourselves in today.
Fun fact! - Far from being used since time immemorial as trans fans would have you believe, the term 'gender role' was coined by Dr. Money only a few decades ago in the 60s.
Mistakes occur throughout the medical profession. No-one denies that. And similarly the same regrets occur.
But by the same token, no one would argue that conditions do not exist because there are some mistakes made in the treatment of conditions.
Otherwise, it could be argued that there are no conditions requiring treatment, but that would be utterly stupid.
What a harrowing story.Funny you mention Dr. Money. Very influential character and one who anyone who hasn't read up on him and his most famous patients, David and Brian Reimer, really should.
Dr. John Money Gender Experiment: Reimer Twins
The John Money Experiment involved David Reimer, a twin boy raised as a girl following a botched circumcision. Money asserted gender was primarily learned, not innate. However, David struggled with his female identity and transitioned back to male in adolescence. The case challenged Money's...
Dr John Money and the sinister origins of gender ideology
How a cruel, amoral experiment helped birth today's trans movement.
tl;dr With David Reimer he completely disproved his own theories on gender blank slatism which were nevertheless adopted pretty much wholesale by the psychological profession, leading the the situation we find ourselves in today.
Fun fact! - Far from being used since time immemorial as trans fans would have you believe, the term 'gender role' was coined by Dr. Money only a few decades ago in the 60s.
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How does someone accidentally cut a p*** off? I'm assuming this was in the name of religion?
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Not necessarily, non-religious male circumcision was the norm in the US (and still is, albeit perhaps to a lesser degree) and I assume in Canada too.
Is bloom trying to smear her?Yes, she's been a longtime activist agaisnt trans gender. But I wouldn't say she's been an activist for 15 years, more like double that, at 35 years at least, since the writing of her first book, "The Wonder of Becoming You", all about the morals and values a Jewish girl should adopt, according to the Old Testament.
"Psychiatrist fighting gender ideology for 15 years. When biology is denied, a price is paid."
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You don't see the hypochrisy in her book?
She is complaining about the education given to children by the average run-of-the-mill USA school, while at the same time preaching her Old Testament (The Thora¹) morals and values to Jewish girls.
I do hope she isn't expecting men to accept their widowed sister-in-laws as an additional wife into their harem, or for men to have several wives, or for a man to lay with his brother's wife, etc... And denying the validity of homosexuality, despite the LGBTQ ranking of her uni. (discussed later). Or for women to be quietly submissive to men. (A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet” (1 Timothy 2:11–12))
Well, Dr Mirriam Grossman doesn't apply the principle of not teaching for herself, or is it only about not teaching to men?
And of course the Old Testament glorifies genocide.
"Political conservatives often claim to base their value system on Christianity and biblically sound doctrine."
For the Bible Tells Me So: Justifying Gender Discrimination Based on Biblical Text
By Courtney McCluneymedium.com
¹ "The Torah is the compilation of the first five books of the Hebrew Bible, namely the books of Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy. It is known as the Pentateuch or the Five Books of Moses by Christians. It is also known as the Written Torah in Jewish tradition."
Ah, Bryn Mawr College?
A mainly Girls College, (96% girls) which holds the highest ranking for LGBTQ accomodation in USA. A ranking highly criticised by others for its methodolgy.
"According to The Princeton Review’s annual ranking of college campuses, released this month, Bryn Mawr College, situated at the Western cap of Philadelphia’s Main Line, earned its spot at the top of LGBTQ-friendly schools in the United States.
...
Krivitsky, who is gay, said she chose Bryn Mawr, in part, to find a like-minded community.
“It was definitely the first time in my life I had so many gay friends, trans friends, which is unique. …It’s definitely a place where you feel somewhat safer to explore certain things and be more open just because of how many students there are around you who are also openly LGBT,” said Krivitsky."
Bryn Mawr College named most LGBTQ-friendly in U.S. - Philadelphia Gay News
When it comes to inclusivity on campus, Bryn Mawr College is the new number one. According to The Princeton Review’s annual ranking of college campuses, released this month, Bryn Mawr College, situated at the Western cap of Philadelphia’s Main Line, earned its spot at the top of LGBTQ-friendly...epgn.com
They do say that student's days at Uni are some of the most formative years for an adult's ideological world views. I wonder what her Uni days were like, surrounded by "so many gay friends, trans friends". "It’s definitely a place where you feel somewhat safer to explore certain things and be more open just because of how many students there are around you who are also openly LGBT"?
Beth Israel Hospital in New York City,
North Shore University Hospital, It is a primary teaching hospital for the Zucker School of Medicine (along with Long Island Jewish Medical Center)
Are we surprised that the preaching of the Old Testament values and morals of Jewish girls should be highly valued and rewarded by the Jewish diaspora in USA (both Orthodox and non-Orthodox)?
Of course they are, according to the Dr Mirriam Grossman website. We wouldn't expect any thing less.
When one feels the need to justify one's world views with one's self-professed grandiosement, then the world views may be fallible.Gender Ideology | Miriam Grossman Md
Miriam Grossman MD is a practicing psychiatrist, author, and public speaker. Before gender ideology was on anyone’s radar, since 2006 she has warned parents about its falsehoods and dangers in the final chapter of her 2009 book about sexuality education, "You’re Teaching My Child WHAT?"www.miriamgrossmanmd.com
Her mission did not start 15 yearts ago, in 2006, it started 35 years ago in 1988, 14 years after leaving Bryn Mawr College.
"Miriam Grossman is an American psychiatrist and anti-transgender activist.
Grossman’s core client base is parents who are anxious or upset about their child’s gender identity and expression. (NB not the child)
Grossman has also become a favored source for conservative and fascist media outlets critical of sex and gender minorities"
Miriam Grossman vs. transgender people - Transgender Map
Miriam Grossman is an American psychiatrist and anti-transgender activist. Grossman claims to be "exposing the origin and hazards of the Sexuality and Gender Industry." Grossman has found there is a lucrative market offering services for "gender-confused young people and their parents." Grossman...
One of her books as a transgender activist was writen anonymously:
"Anti-transgender activism
Grossman’s 2007 book Unprotected: A Campus Psychiatrist Reveals How Political Correctness in Her Profession Endangers Every Student came out under the pseudonym “Anonymous, M.D."
Miriam Grossman vs. transgender people - Transgender Map
Miriam Grossman is an American psychiatrist and anti-transgender activist. Grossman claims to be "exposing the origin and hazards of the Sexuality and Gender Industry." Grossman has found there is a lucrative market offering services for "gender-confused young people and their parents." Grossman...
Finally, it isn't the desire to be a trans gender per se that creates the emotionl stress, it's the conflict of what society expects and what one feels.
What are the things that make him feel uncomfortable?
Smear her?
I am pointing out the hypochrisy in her approach: to argue that one curriculum of sex education is not correct, but hers is and should be taught.
She is one person arguing against numerous others to adopt her sex education curriculum and to ditch another.
So you do not see the hypochrisy?
As for the formation of her ideas, she went to a predominantly single sex college which held highest ranking for LGBTQ students, and according to other students: " so many gay friends, trans friends, …It’s definitely a place where you feel somewhat safer to explore certain things and be more open just because of how many students there are around you who are also openly LGBT.
It's perfectly understandable that she resorted to a much stricter view of sex, and reverted to an Old Testament view of sexual relationships.
But I assume she carefully selects certain snippets of the Old Testament to preach to the parents of potential trans gender children.
Obviously omitting the bits about genocide, infantacide, sex with your brothers wife, and polygamous males (but not females)
Apparently she teaches that oral sex causes throat cancer, that condoms do not protect against STD, and women should hav echildfren early, and many children to prevent breats cancer.
"Among her views, Dr Grossman believes condoms don't protect against the spread of sexually transmitted infections and HIV.
She says evidence that oral sex causes throat and mouth cancer is being withheld from teenagers and that girls need to be taught to have children early and often, as a way to ward off breast cancer.
ALISON CALDWELL: ... She says Dr Grossman's views are political more than they are scientific.
BETH WILSON: I get very concerned with people who have medical degrees saying that their political beliefs are in fact based on scientific evidence when they quite clearly are not. "
Controversial American doctor condemns sex education in Australian schools - ABC listen
There's a storm in Victoria about a state school hosting a controversial psychiatrist who believes sex education is dangerous. Victoria's Health Services Commissioner has expressed concerns about the upcoming appearance at a public school in Melbourne's east by American psychiatrist Dr Miriam...
www.abc.net.au
This is the doctor that wants to replace existing sex education with her own theories.
What are you referring to.
Or are we supposed to guess?
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