Trend Router Bits

[PTH]

I recently bought a set of 1/2" router bits, an earlier post mentioned this, I said that I would report on their performance.

Not good, so far.

I think I must be doing something wrong, perhaps some proper woodworkers can put me right.

I tried using a 6.3mm two flute straight cutter to make a groove in a piece of 2x2 PAR softwood to accept a plywood panel. The groove was to be only about 4mm deep. From past experience I tried to cut this in single pass using the highest cutting speed available and a very slow feed. After about 4" of cut the bit snapped off at the waist between the shank and the cutting part.

I tried again using a 5mm single flute. Again high speed and an even slower feed. This time I managed about 18" before the bit snapped off in the same way.

I had never snapped a bit with my previous router allthough that was a 1/4" version and only had a 1hp motor compared to the 2.5hp of the new one.

Is it better to use 1/4" bits and corresponding collets for this type of work or am I doing something daft?

 

[petewood]

Sounds to me like you're doing everything right. The cutter should be able to take this easily. Are you using a fence fitted to the router, how far do you push the shank into the router collet?

 

[big-all]

personaly i would have done it in 2mm passes
it all depends on what you call slow feed rate!!! 3m a min is slow

you also need a smooth flow rate any jerks could double or triple the strain

was the waste able to clear if not that would put extra strain as the dust gets compacted in behind causing extra work and friction

having said all that dont think the cutter should have broken

 

[petewood]

were the cutters sharp?

 

[TexMex]

I find that behavior rather frightening. I have NEVER had a router bit snap in the manner you describe. I have used 6mm twin flute bits to make 12mm deep grooves in a single pass. I've even accidentally hit nails (and successfully cut straight through them before I noticed). The worst problem I have ever encountered is a chipped bit. Sounds like you have some defective bits on your hands.

The whole point of having a nice big 1/2" router is to use all that power to get the job done. If you are going to nancy around with a few mm at a time, you might just as well use one of those diddy B&D jobbies. The bits should be up to the job. It's not your fault.

 

[PTH]

Thanks for the re-assurance everyone.
To clear up a few points:
Chip clearance is fine, I'm using a vacuum connection.
The bits should be sharp, they are brand new.
I always make sure that at least 2/3 of the shank is into the collets, same rule of thumb as with drill bits and milling cutters presumably.
I'm using the fence supplied with the router.
Feed rate at a guess is about 1/2" per second, as smoothly as I can manage, I always do a test pass with the router stopped to make sure that cables and vacuum hose don't catch on anything or that the fence doesn't foul any clamps.

Texmex - I take your point entirely about having nice powerful tools - It was one of the main reason for buying the Freud machine - I wanted something that would last and be able to handle pretty much any job I throw it at. The stuff i'm doing at the moment is softwood cabinet making, the next one is putting decorative edges on some very well seasoned elm; not famous for it's soft compliant nature.

I have bought some new 6.3mm straight cutters - Kennedy this time, I'll try to replicate the previous conditions and see if these survive.

Thanks again for all the help, I may take this up with Trend, but I'll keep you informed.

 

[big-all]

another thought !!!!

was the router on max revs!!!!

softer the material faster the cutter and feed rate harder the wood the slower the rotation and slower the feed rate

yep cutter 2/3 in 1/3 out of collet

tex mex we have all hit nails whilst routing or in my case hardend screws

i personaly wouldnt cut more than 3 or4 mm in one pass with a six mm cutter never mind 12
but thats me

 

[PTH]

Big-all - yes, all 24000 of them. This wood is only cheap PAR, but selected to avoid knots in the machined areas. These cuts are only 4mm deep and I've done many similar with the previous router.

 

[petewood]

The only other thing I can think of is sabotage, have you seen any suspicious-looking characters with hacksaws lurking around?

 

[big-all]

just as an add on did you know smaller routers often rev above 30.000 rpm giving you upto 30% more revs

if you compare the dewalt 625ek at 20.000 and the little ferm at 32.000
its probably about 60%more

 

[PTH]

Petewood - tee hee, only in the mirror.

Big-all - wow that's about 40m/s cutting speed on a 1" dia bit. Surely the use of that speed must be limited to very small cutters?

 

[big-all]

Petewood - tee hee, only in the mirror.

Big-all - wow that's about 40m/s cutting speed on a 1" dia bit. Surely the use of that speed must be limited to very small cutters?

yes it certainly is have a look at the[slow loading]trend website
http://www.trendmachinery.co.uk/features/rc_explained.shtml#grade

 

[TexMex]

BTW. Although probably not relevant in this situation, a circular saw table can be pretty useful for roughing out some bulk before you use the router. For a deep narrow slot, you just adjust the depth of the saw to a shade less than your finished slot, scribe a saw cut up the middle of your intended slot. If you want to rough a bit more out, you just run it up a few times, adjusting the fence a smidge between each pass.

For a large rebate you can make two cuts on adjacent sides to literally cut out the corner. Once again leaving a couple of mm for the router to finish. This also has the added advantage of creating less saw dust (as a large part of the waste is a single piece of wood that you have cut out).

Since the feed speed of a circular saw is absolutely blistering, compared to a router, in the long run, it can save quite a bit of time. Besides, the less work your router bits do, the longer they'll last.

 

[HIGH]

Hello PTH
Just to add to this I fit a lot of kitchens and I recently bought a Trend 1/2 inch cutter to do the butt and scribe joint and I was shocked, after just doing one joint (male and female) and the bolt slots the cutter was chipped in places all the way along the carbide tip. Not happy at all not sure whats happening with Trend I wonder like so many companies if they are probably buying in from the far east. Anyway never again waste of money in the past I have used relatively cheap not a well known make of cutter I get from my local tool shop and I have had no problems at all other than obvious wear and tell. Whatever happened to quality eh?
Cheers

 

[PTH]

I think some of the problem is simply due to the design of the smaller two flute cutters. There is no radius at the end of the shank and a very pronounced waist between the shank and the TCT cutters. I've used the 1/2" two flute cutter, which obviously doesn't have these features for plunge and cut operations to make mortices and for cutting tenons, which were done in single pass to 12mm depth - no noticeable wear after 40 or so cuts.

I've noticed that the Kennedy replacement cutters I've bought do not really have a waist and that the end of the shank has a slight radius.

Texmex - I'll bear you suggestion in mind but it would really be practical for the job I'm currently doing; the slots have to go between two mortices in each case, with exposed wood outside of these, leaving no run-out space for the saw cut.

High - I'll do some more work on this over the weekend but I don't think I'll be buying any more Trend bits.