Uk 230v and leaving the EU

[Thomasthepiperson]

I have just wondered, with the Uk going to be leaving the EU, will the 230v be scrapped? And uk, reverting back to the old tolerances?

 

[Risteard]

I have just wondered, with the Uk going to be leaving the EU, will the 230v be scrapped? And uk, reverting back to the old tolerances?

No. I have no reason to believe that this will happen. Do you?

Leaving the so-called "EU" will not mean reverting everything back - it's just not practical for a start. Anyway, CENELEC has nothing to do with the so-called "EU".

 

[ericmark]

Can't see voltage changing, well it did not really change anyway we just had a larger tolerance. However the CE mark may not cover being suitable for use in UK. I would expect the kite mark to return. So we could find for example in the UK using LAN on power lines could be stopped but still allowed in EU or vice versa. Also the reversing of line and neutral could cause problems where allowed in EU and not UK. So UK versions of appliances could have single pole switching but EU versions requiring double pole switching.

CENELEC is trying to standardise regulations, but we have also been relying on the CE mark, so without an input to what is permitted in EU we could have items which don't comply with EU but do comply with UK or vice versa.

Where I see the major problem is to adopt EU laws en-block would not really work, so when we leave there will be 100's of laws which no longer apply, so we will have loads of loop holes created where laws and regulations are removed and not replaced.

 

[big-all]

not sure why anything will change
why would CE not be valid??
you set a standard and mark accordingly
you cannot preclude people from accepting a product made to a standard ??

 

[Jackrae]

The CE mark isn't a "standard" other than meaning Chinese Export
Items manufactured to BSI carry the number of the standard

 

[endecotp]

The CE mark isn't a "standard" other than meaning Chinese Export

That's a myth.

 

[JohnW2]

not sure why anything will change ... why would CE not be valid??

Quite. I think that many people are probably getting a little silly and/or not thinking clearly/deeply enough. There are countless "European" (and other international) things to which we subscribe that are nothing to do with (and/or do not depend upon) EU membership.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Jackrae]

Just waiting for the "let's go back to whitworth threads" group to waken up

 

[EFLImpudence]

Oh, yes. Of course - we won't be able to use metric any more, will we?

Hadn't thought of that.

 

[JohnW2]

CENELEC is trying to standardise regulations, but we have also been relying on the CE mark, so without an input to what is permitted in EU we could have items which don't comply with EU but do comply with UK or vice versa

We could - but, just like the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, Americans or whoever, if we wanted to export products to the EU (which we usually would want to be able to do), we would have to comply with the relevant EU regulations and CE mark the products to indicate that compliance.

Kind Regards, John

 

[SimonH2]

The CE mark isn't a "standard" other than meaning Chinese Export

That's a myth.

I suspect that while it's a myth, like many myths there's more than a grain of truth behind it.
While the CE mark should indicate that the device meets all applicable EU standards, in practical terms there are several problems with it :
1) It is legal to apply the mark without a single test or a single item ! Using the technical file route, the manufacturer can "calculate" that it would pass the tests if tested.
2) "Chinese Export" is a fitting description given the number of examples that have come to light of devices that were (for example) clearly designed with filters in the inputs (and possibly even tested with them fitted in pre-production units) but the components weren't fitted in production.
3) Lack of enforcement. In reality, there's not a lot of enforcement - as I understand it, it's down to Trading Standards to respond to complaints, and they are badly under-resourced.

But on the original question, I don't see anything changing. In practical terms nothing changed when we harmonised other than a few numbers in a spec somewhere. There was no interest from the DNOs to change to 230V as that would increase currents in the network, and their I²R losses along with that - which is in part why we never left 240V anyway.

 

[Cigaro]

There was no interest from the DNOs to change to 230V as that would increase currents in the network, and their I²R losses along with that - which is in part why we never left 240V anyway.

While this holds true for switch mode power supplies, which are probably slightly more commonplace today than they were back then, surely the majority of high power loads (heaters, kettles, etc) are resistive and, as such, reducing the voltage to 230v would actually cause an overall drop in network current? Of course, this would also have the unpleasant side effect of reducing total power usage, and therefore electricity bills - perhaps that's the real reason

 

[JohnW2]

... surely the majority of high power loads (heaters, kettles, etc) are resistive and, as such, reducing the voltage to 230v would actually cause an overall drop in network current? Of course, this would also have the unpleasant side effect of reducing total power usage, and therefore electricity bills - perhaps that's the real reason

Reducing the voltage would, indeed, result in a reduction in power usage, but energy usage (which is what we pay for) would remain much the same (might even increase slightly, due to increased losses) ... a kettle or heater would consume less power (i.e energy per unit time), but would take longer to heat water, room or whatever to the desired temperature, so the energy used would be at least as high - the laws of physics can't be beaten

Kind Regards, John

 

[Taylortwocities]

More importantly, what has/will happen to the Euro rules on higher-powered toasters, kettles and hairdryers. Vacuum cleaners are already limited in their max power.
The new rules were meant to be imposed in the autumn, but the EU held back on it for fears that it might encourage a BREXIT vote. Ha ha.

I think it will still be imposed on us, however, as many appliances are made for a majority market, and that will include those poor more heavily regulated Europeans.

 

[Jackrae]

But as JW2 rightly pointed out, reducing power doesn't necessarily reduce energy demand.