UK made tools

[Deleted member 18243]

Great article, thanks Woody.

If you care about this country it's essential that you invest in it as much as you possibly can. Even where a company is foreign-owned, if it has factories here and you buy from them, you are investing at least some of your money in that factory's workers and by extension its local area.

Makita makes great power tools, but how many of you know that it has a factory in Telford?

 

[^woody^]

To let the plebs and the commoners see and feel the supreme quality.

But do those tools give better results? Or is it just for show?

If someone wants to know the time then it makes no difference if that comes from a Casio or a Rolex - but incidentally the Casio will be more accurate. Likewise for when an edge needs to be planed flat.

 

[Ryler]

Have one of these...

It gives better results than a chisel. Its also a delight to use.
Gave it to a guy at work recently and he did all the hinge recesses on 8 doors.

 

[CBW]

There’s a lot of companies now who have subsidiaries and parent companies, it’s the way of the world. We also live in a throw away society. I don’t always trust website reviews, as I like to review it myself (if that makes sense?). I tend to go with brands that I’ve been told about in my plumbing apprenticeship and what I see as good and reasonably priced, not because of some You-tuber (can’t believe that’s a thing now). I used to find Draper very good and British (didn’t see it in the list), but a lot of theirs aren’t British made anymore. Even Dyson moved manufacturing abroad, probably because it’s cheaper - so unless something is done with costs, then can’t see anything changing.

ZAG industries - made toolboxes (one of which I bought from Lidl or Aldi), still got the toolbox, very well made, didn’t cost much, they also made toolboxes for StanleyDeWaltBlackanddecker.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Have one of these...

It gives better results than a chisel. Its also a delight to use.
Gave it to a guy at work recently and he did all the hinge recesses on 8 doors.

Well, I have one of these:


Which is actually designed to chop out door hinge recesses, lock face plate recesses and the like whilst working on a narrow edge which can be awkward with a router plane like yours. It works well, but TBH I still use a laminate trimmer (trim router) most of the time.

I have quite a number of "nice" planes, but rarely need them at work, even on listed buildings (bearing in mind that I carry a jack plane, a block plane and a spoke shave in my kit). Personally, I don't take stuff to site to impress the proles - I take more specialist stuff like a shoulder plane, jointer plane, carraige rebate plane, side rebate plane, etc to undertake specific tasks which would otherwise be difficult to achieve with power tools or to the required standard. Even been known to field a set of rounds and hollows on a couple of occasions when shortish one off pieces of replacement moulding were required (knife and fork job, but fast)

BTW my jack plane is knocking on for 90 years old and I'd rate it almost as good as a L-N, at least on softwood (and unlike others I have actually used both L-N and Clifton jack planes). Main thing I'm bothered about is the risk of dropping it onto concrete - one big plus of all these modern premium bench planes is that they use malleable cast iron which won't break if you drop one. The cheap ones just use brittle old fashioned cast iron

 

[^woody^]

Yes very fancy, but in context, are there cheaper similar planes commonly available? And do they do a similar job with a sharp blade and a skilled hand? That is my argument.

I would also bet that any old skool chippie would be able to knock a hinge or a joint recess out with his favourite chisels in the same amount of time and just as neatly. It's always down to the person, not the tool.

Now I know that you two certainly know your stuff, and presumably can knock out some excellent work, but is that because of those expensive tools or despite them?

 

[Ryler]

And do they do a similar job with a sharp blade and a skilled hand? That is my argument.

Yes of course they will.
Might take a bit longer though.
A mercedes benz AMG class will get you from a to b.
So will a morris minor.

But the former has a much better handling and feel. Smoother operation due to the refined engineering.
Easier operation due to the refined engineering.
Just like supreme tools. Plus they look good.
Just like the AMG.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Yes very fancy, but in context, are there cheaper similar planes commonly available? And do they do a similar job with a sharp blade and a skilled hand? That is my argument.

No. That type of hinge recessor was actually patented about 110 years ago and they were certainty on sale in the USA just after WWI. Even Stanley made a version for a whole (#171). They were originally aimed at joiners on pricework installing multiple doors because they did speed the job up, but they weren't long lived probably because of the rapid take up of the electric router (often coupled with a planer base and hinge recessing jig) by price work carpenters in the USA from the mid to late 1920s onwards. Consequently most production stopped by WWII. Having used one I know of no other plane which performs the task as well, or as quickly. The result from this plane are superior to most hinge recessing I've seen done by hand. I don't use mine much simply because I don't hang many doors any more (and where they are new installs they come in as pre-hung sets in the main) and in any case I carry a cordless laminate trimmer with me (used for multiple tasks) which is far less of a one trick pony.

I would also bet that any old skool chippie would be able to knock a hinge or a joint recess out with his favourite chisels in the same amount of time and just as neatly. It's always down to the person, not the tool.

Based on having refurbished or repaired hundreds of old doors over the years, quite a few on listed buildings, banks, etc I would have to say that the general quality of hinge recessing by hand is often pretty low. Neat, flat-bottomed recesses is what you are taught to produce in college - out on site it asn"t like installing small hinges in nice clrar grained stock as a cabinetmakers might; time pressures often mean that at least some of the quality goes out the window, simply because financial constraints. The other thing is that a lot of the timbers used in doors (at least in modern fire doors) is nasty, rowed, stringy carp which can be awkward to work cleanly with hand chisels

... presumably can knock out some excellent work, but is that because of those expensive tools or despite them?

Neither. I don't use that many modern high end hand tools, but when I do it is because I will benefit in terms of quality and/or speed. I rarely use cheap, bargain basement tools because the performance of such tools is often at the very least disappointing. I also think my time and money are better spent on buying appropriate quality tools for the job at hand rather than attempting to turn a pig's ear into a Lie-Nielsen.

There are two old saws which I feel still hold true, namely "Buy the best tools you can afford and they'll Iast you a lifetime" and "The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten" (Ruskin). To those you might also add "Buy cheap, buy twice"